PixlBit

bitch is fighting a bear and shit....

The bear is a decent fight, but stuff like that doesn't happen anywhere near often enough.

If Lara Croft had a pink dinosaur sidekick who threw cupcakes at bad guys, I'd be more interested in the Tomb Raider games.

I honestly feel like that would improve every game.

Personally, I feel RotTR is better than every Uncharted save 2 and the original is on par with 1 and 3 (not saying much but still). Uncharted definitely has more interesting characters and a better story but I feel RotTR has better combat than 1-3, especially in the stealth department, and the structure really helps it be more interesting than 1, 3, and 4. Rise gives a much better balance of puzzles, platforming, and exploration than 1 and 3 while I feel its puzzles are stronger and its pacing is more consistent than 4's.

Compared to 2 though all those games feel like mediocrity. 

I don't think it holds a candle to four either, or even 3.

 The only thing I think it does better is platforming. It's about the same as Uncharted in puzzles, though Uncharted at least has the balls to put puzzles in the main game and not put a tool tip up every 3 seconds to remind you of a mechanic you're already well aware of.

 I think Rise of the Tomb Raider has the potential to be great, but it never realises it. If it mixed it's combat with it's platforming a bit more we might have a fun system, but it's mostly broken up into platforming and combat zones. Uncharted's combat has incorporated interesting verticality at least from 2, and 4's combat is leaps and fucking bounds above it.

 And I forgive a lot about Uncharted because I like it's characters and world. I don't think I like anything about Tomb Raider's characters, and the plot is fucking garbage even compared to most video games.

 What really hurts it is how inconsistent it is, how it's like "don't freeze to death" then puts you in freezing water constantly. Then in a cutscene you fall into the same freezing water you just swam through for like 20 minutes and now all of a sudden it's a problem. This happens so fucking consistently with every aspect of the story that I can't take it seriously.

 Which would be fine, because gameplay is king but it doesn't even do that well half the time. It's too scared to take risks, or it half takes them then backpedals out because it's scared the player might have a fucking stroke if anything even remotely original happens.

 Not to mention that in terms of structure, this is almost a remake of the original game. It feels like very little has changed this time around apart from having a few more things to play with and a bit less combat.

 It's like the first game, painfully average dribble that people think is the second coming of Christ for some fucking reason.

I remember a few combat scenarios mixing the verticality, though they came more later on. As for puzzles, Uncharted's never have me stumped even for a second, always know more or less what to do, and not knowing means opening the journal. Rise had more than a few instances where I was legitimately stumped, several of which were a part of the main story. 4's combat may be better (not sure on leaps and bounds because its stealth isn't as good as Rise's), but that game has too serious of pacing issues for me to say it's better.

Inconsistency and repeating itself I'm with you on, but I think it's much higher than mediocrity. That goes to stuff like Uncharted 1 or a Treyarch Call of Duty which can't even have any high points. 

Really? This game's pacing is all over the place. I don't have a problem with Uncharted 4's pacing personally outside of the intro. I think it flowed pretty well.

 Also, the puzzles aren't amazing. Most of them are solved by pressing the right thumb stick. I know Uncharted has the same problem, but I'm just pointing out that neither game is all that good in this regard.

 Also, in terms of stealth they're pretty much identical save for a few good bits. You can throw shit in this one, but the AI is so profoundly stupid that it's not really all that satisfying in my opinion. And if combat, story, spectacle and characters are better, the only thing Rise does better is puzzles and platforming, neither of which are really challenging enough to be called amazing.

 And Treyarch are the guys making the best CoD's at the moment. Infinity Ward are making the utter shit. 

Treyarch has better ideas, but their execution is pure mediocrity. Puzzles, I still say Rise excels. And Uncharted 4's pacing falls apart when the game puts the story on pause for four hours so Elena can come back.

See, I loved those moments. It worked kind of how Spring worked in The Last of Us, though not quite as effectively obviously. But it was the moment after a shocking moment where Druckman was like "have some pretty shit to look at." I feel it worked, especially with the dialogue between the couple and the way it actually felt like interactions between two grown ups who are accepting their lot in life.

 Where you see a failure of pacing, I see the best part of the game. I'd have loved to be with Elena for the entire game, but then we wouldn't have a story because she would've seen through Sam's shit in an instant... though arguably Sully should have seen through it quicker since he distrusts Sam to begin with.

Here's the issue with that though: TLOU never had the main plot ramp up where that would be an issue. TLOU kept it clear that it's much more character focused than plot focused than we saw with Uncharted which is why Winter and Spring worked. The game is about Joel and Ellie surviving to get to the lab, not them on a hunt to figure out how to get there.

Uncharted 4 is about the Nate and Sam figuring out where the treasure is on the other hand. Pausing that plot for a character moment doesn't work there because until the moment where Elena returns, every scene was advancing the plot. The same was not true for TLOU, every scene was about building the characters there. So when Uncharted pauses its plot to build the characters, it doesn't fit.

They could have written it so it could keep going without that, and those pirate betrayal moments took over two hours to get to before you bring them up. Like Uncharted 3, I felt they didn't try hard enough in certain moments when writing the plot. They just stuck them in there without trying to fit them into the narrative both in terms of plot development and pacing. And that is sloppy pacing.

Again, I disagree somewhat. This game is definitely more about character than plot. It's a game mostly about character. It's about Nathan's obsession with not falling back into his past obsessions, which is why he lies to Elena who he knows would be okay with what he's doing for the reasons he's doing it. He hides it from her because he's scared if he doesn't, they'll end up falling back into this life and things will end the way they always do, with them splitting up. Then maybe there won't be another chance like she's been giving him all this time.

 The game is about Nathan being scared about his brother going through the same obsession he is, and also that it may be dragging him back into it. The main plot ultimately doesn't matter because this is a game about obsession and family, and it actually follows through on those themes unlike Uncharted 3.

 Again, I honestly feel like it has the best "story" of all the Uncharted games, including 2. 2 may be the best, but it also falls apart at the end, which is exactly where Uncharted 4 is at it's best. It's far from perfect, but I think it is a much deeper story than what we've seen previously, and far more character driven than you give it credit for. 

Uncharted is still very character focused, but that doesn't change that every area you go to exists to advance the plot until Elena shows up. They establish his past, his present, then have him unravel some clue in each spot. So when Elena does show up, it's extremely jarring that character is the only focus rather than keeping the two tied together like the rest of the game. Again, I feel they didn't try to integrate it well into the plot.

I think you misinterpreted what I said. I never claimed Uncharted wasn't character focused, I claimed it was less than TLOU which goes much further in that regard because you brought up how it pulled the same thing. But because TLOU went further, it worked there, but not Uncharted. Hence why I compared them to Mass Effect, all three of which are some of the most character focused plots out there.

I wouldn't say 2's plot fell apart at the end either, the plot was perfectly fine for what it was. The gameplay fell apart towards the end, yes, but the encounter with Lazarovic and running through Shambala were fine story wise.

Okay, yeah, I more meant the game fell apart than the plot. I mean each to their own, I just fucking love Uncharted 4, and I think we went into it looking for different things and that's kind of why we get different things out of it. I never cared about the overarching plot as much as I care about the character interactions, which is why I really enjoyed the slower moments. I also liked that there was much less combat than prior titles and I could just enjoy hanging out with these characters.

I was excited to return to these characters, the problem is when I really hate the one who gets the second most amount of focus in the game, a character driven plot doesn't work as well. So when the plot is put on pause for that long and the second most important character pisses me off, you get a sense why I won't be crazy about its story?

And I'd be fine with the slower moments if they offered something in the gameplay department. Going back to TLOU, they offered a chance to scavenge supplies with a risk of bumping into clickers. UC4 it's just nothing but character interactions which were still well written, but boring from a gameplay perspective.

 Why do you hate Sam so much, other than that he appears out of nowhere and was never mentioned until now?

 Uncharted has platforming and exploration in th quieter moments, and given that there were more routes to take it was a bit more fun than in past games.

Well I wasn't talking about the platforming. I was talking about the moments where it just sticks you in a room and tells you to run around until you can proceed. The mansion chapter is especially guilty of this.

And I hate Sam because he does terrible things and never suffers significant consequences for them. Someone will give him a glare or he'll get in trouble for a little bit but considering he endangers everyone's life for his own selfish ambitions, that's not enough. I have no clue why Elena or Sully didn't tell him they never want to see him again at the end.

Because he basically does what Nathan does in the last game. Honestly, I'm more annoyed the last game didn't have the balls to kill Sully when there had been so much foreshadowing than I am that Sam didn't receive consequence.

 And I mean he was locked away in a cell for ages, and he was doing it for his mother so Nathan kind of understood that and I guess didn't want to lose his brother again.

Here's the difference: Nate never lied to Sully. He was convinced if Sully really didn't want to go on, he'd say something. That's why he's still a strong character, he's flawed, but still good natured. Sam lied to Nate and didn't own up when he saw his lie destroy Nate's marriage. Then he puts everyone's life in danger several times later on just for the treasure with no remorse or consequences. That's a piece of shit who they should want nothing to do with. Nate I can understand forgiving maybe because they're brothers but not Elena or Sully.

You seem to just be ignoring major details that make all the difference with your arguments. Yes, there are paralells in several things I dislike in Uncharted 4 with other games or aspects of games I like. But a few key details can make all the difference as to whether something works or not.

Okay, Nate also lies to Elena even though he knows full well she'll be on board. Nate knows for a fact Scully will follow him to the ends of the earth and actively exploits it. Nate kills people just to get treasure - even when he doesn't have to as we see in the opening of two. Half the time, Nate is just doing everything he's doing out of a selfish desire to either have a grand adventure or get fucktons of money, regardless of the cost.

I don't think Sam is worse because he lied, especially since he thinks he's doing his brother a favour. Nathan takes like a good couple of hours to even mention Elena is his wife, and barely brings her up. He wants this, and Sam knows it. Even thoguh what he's doing is wrong, he thinks he's doing the right thing by Nathan by giving him an excuse to get some closure on his mom.

 Plus he's been in jail for like 20 years. Nathan did a piss poor job trying to find him, especially since Raith could. If you're going to argue about them dicking over anyone, it's Raith, who outside of the scene where he shoots whatshisface in prison, never really does anything else that bad again until he gets sick of Nathan and Sam killing all the guys he hired and constantly getting in the way, not turning back on the multiple times he offered a way out, and Nathan never even considering asking him for help when his brother's life on the line. Fuck I mean I'm sure Raith would have sprung some cash out of his own fortune to help if Sam's lie were true, but Nathan NEVER considers it, because he values the adventure more.

Nate does not know full well if Elena will be on board. He knows she would for that other project, but not this. He promised to keep her off, and only breaks it because he thinks his brother's life is on the line. And you're making assumptions that Nate was exploiting Sully. He's a naive person, it's in his nature to not notice that. Could you interpret it that way? Possibly, but Nate's naivety makes more sense IMO, since Nate exploiting Sully would clash with Uncharted's tone and there's no concrete evidence against him just being naive.

Sam didn't know that Nate was married at first, but that point was moot since I specifically addressed when Elena discovered them. At that point he should have said something so Nate could decide for himself if he really wanted to go along with the hunt or his marriage was really more important. Not doing that makes him a selfish piece of shit who's exploiting his brother, which unlike Nate and Sully, only has one real interpretation. At that moment is where he officially is exploiting Nate and not caring about the real consequences in Nate's life by telling this lie. Sorry dude, but I can't interpret someone who does that as anything other than a piece of shit. I don't care if it's for his mom's legacy or because he loves doing that with his brother, that's him making a choice to continue lying and let his brother suffer all of the bad consequences for it.

And Nate never considering Raith could just be him not even thinking about it. He could have not known Raith was an option or forgotten about him before the heist and after dude was after their heads, thus putting the option off the table.

If you can get past these flaws, fine, but dude, Uncharted 4's story is very, very far from perfect and it feels like you're trying way too hard to defend it, especially when some of these arguments go against the tone and story.

It is a very flawed story, but it's still the best story in the franchise in my opinion. Firstly, I highly doubt Elena wouldn't let Nate try to save his own brother. She'd look into other methods first maybe, but she's not that fucking heartless. I highly doubt her "no adventure" policy would stay if it endangered someone Nate cares about.

 Yeah, that was a dick move. I feel like he was too far into the lie to let go, and off the evidence he has from their childhood honestly believes this is the best thing for Nate. This is what started their lives, this is what they were obsessed with, and he's still stuck there despite everyone else having a chance to move on. Call him a selfish dick all you like, but as far as he's concerned, he was locked in prison for half his life with only one thing keeping him going. That's his life, and he'd honestly be broken without it.

 Now, I do actually think the twist is stupid, and that the crimelord dude showing up would have actually made it a better game, especially if Nate and Raith then had to work together. It would have added the sense of danger the story felt like it lacked later on, and there could have been a cool war between Nadine and the Crimelord's (forgot his name) army that would have made an incredible set piece.

 But as it stands, I don't think Sam is a terrible person, just a severely broken one.

Okay, I'll concede on Elena, but with Sam, no. He saw that Nate loved doing that, yeah, but that still wasn't his choice to make. He should have let Nate know everything at that point and let Nate decide for himself. In too deep isn't a good excuse, you don't screw over a family member like that. It doesn't matter if he's lived in prison or filling his mom's legacy, those are in the past and dragging Nate down for his selfish desires (and yes, they are selfish when he has to continue lying to Nate to keep him along) makes him a piece of shit. Not to mention that he refuses to leave knowing full well Nate will run after him, endangering his life. That's someone who takes their brother for granted, which as far as I'm concerned, is one of the shittiest things a person can do.

Pretty sure people can do shittier. Like make a 3DS metroid game focused exclusively on combat with no exploration at all.

 But agree to disagree. We've been arguing for so long the text has gone fucky.

Comparing RotTR to originals would be pointless from me, but I still much prefer the classics. I know they are different to the reboots, but this looks like a good safe 3rd person action game with good gameplay and visuals. I love old TR, but dont care about the new ones. I liked the platforming challenge the originals offered. I'll wait for the inevitable return to Egypt or Mexico with grand tombs and puzzles to try.  But not this so much.

This is fun, but a challenge it ain't. The Tomb puzzles are mostly easier than the stuff you'd see in Uncharted, the platforming is fun but never becomes difficult, and the combat is pretty easy even on the hardest difficuly. So on that front it is definitely nothing like the original, and it's one of those games that constantly trying to hold your hand.

 That said, when everything is going well, the game can be pretty enjoyable. It just won't blow your socks off.

I watched gameplay on Twitch, and it looked very pretty. I remember seeing some stealth segment gameplay and some outdoors combat, Uncharted and Last of Us were the vibes it gave me, but not TR. Isnt PS4 supposed to get a super version with extra DLC or something? I dont love ALL of the Uncharted games either, except for maybe 2. Too much gunning for my taste. I just want to explore a little and not have to kill everything I see all the time. 

Firstly, play Uncharted 4. It has very little shooting surprisingly, and what is there is vastly improved over the other games.

 Yeah, it's coming to PS4 at the end of the year with a bunch of new DLC. Some of it looks interesting, like the Craft Manor stuff that throws in the Manor from the old games and adds some Gone Home elements to it. The other mode seems to be the Zombies mode from CoD, so eh.

 One thing I will commend is how little time I've spent in combat in this game. There hasn't been that much honestly. Maybe that's because I've sought out all the optional tombs and done some of the side missions, but I kinda like that about it.

Well, if it doesn't focus on combat then I'm more interested in it now. What I watched on twitch was like survivalism in the wild or something. Not sure if that was a small segment or if the whole game is like that. The stealth parts didnt bother me, as most TR games have had combat segments and could use improvements. 

Nope, the survival is in it for maybe 20 minutes then promptly forgotten about.

I felt RotTR had a good challenge if you do survival mode where they completely overhauled the health and crafting systems to focus more on survival while completely eliminating regenerating health. I'd probably have a much lower opinion of it if not for that mode.

I'm playing it on hard, but not survival. I go through and retry it on the survival and see if I like any more. Though, since there actually a ton of combat in it until the halfway mark, I feel like it won't actually improve things that much.

Yeah, I'd probably have a similar opinion on its mediocrity if not for survival mode. That's the mode where things are much more fun. Even with less combat, just knowing that you can't heal automatically when it does come up makes things more intense.

I liked the Tomb Raider reboot and am looking forward to playing Rise when it hits PS4.  Yes, they forgot the tombs in the first game, but for me, everything else was an improvement over the older titles.  I loved the original, but I can't even imagine going back to that gameplay-hopping around and holding down the fire button until the enemy is dead and then locking onto the next one, or having to step backwards to get a running start every time you want to jump.  I did like Legend--the first time the series was rebooted imo, but by the time Underworld came out, it had gotten stale again.  I was very skeptical when the reboot was first announced, but after playing it, I felt like they did the series justice.  But yeah, I do miss the elaborate tomb/puzzle design.

If you liked the first one, you'll like this. It is a big improvement in most ways.

 I have a few problems: Firstly, this is basically another origin story. It starts almost the same way with Lara being injured, having to find camp, having to not freeze to death, having to scavenge for food, and having to fight a deadly animal. Then, like in the first game, all of those elements disappear, and you're free to swim in freezing water with no consequence unless a cutscene says there is.

 Secondly, the writing is garbage. The old games won't win any awards either, but at least Lara herself had a sense of humour. I don't need every game to be funny or Joss Whedon style charming, but when your story is this serious and simultaneously B movie-esque, I want something else.

 Finally, I want some of that atmosphere back. The original Tomb Raider games were almost survival horror games in some regards. Even playing Tomb Raider Anniversary recently gave me serious Metroid Prime vibes, and I'd love to feel like I'm exploring something new like I did in those games.

 But I will agree these games are good. They're fun enough if you're into it, I just don't see why either of them were even considered for GOTY by certain sites.

I picked this game up during the Steam Summer Sale and at first I was into it because it was the game that wasn't available on my PS4 but I've since cooled on it. So far I thought it was more of the last game which I enjoyed. Hopefully I'll get back into the mood and finish off this story. 

I feel the same way about all of this shit, Uncharted 2 included. Both series feature half hearted attempts at things other games did or do better, with no challenge or interesting mechanics.  I care for none of the tales or characters in any of these games. The plots, dialogue, and characterizations are network TV quality, as far as I'm concerned, like something Bruce Campbell or Kevin Sorbo would have starred in on The WB.

That said, I'll take the better platforming and darker atmosphere of Newmb Raider over Uncharted's better...whatever.  At least the former still felt like a video game to me...

Uncharted is a video game though. You play through pretty much all of the spectacle in a way that isn't simply a QTE, which is more than I can say fo Tomb Raider. When something exiting is happening, it's always a shitty quick time event, or something close to a shitty quick time event. 

 Uncharted will have you shooting dudes and platforming while a building is collapsing around you, or it will have you leaping from one vehicle to the next in an extended gunfight. Tomb Raider will have you fall down a slope and press 'x' occasionally.

 And yeah, Uncharted's story's are pretty shit, but the character interactions are pretty solid, especially in the new one. 

 That said, I'd rather have a game thoroughly entertain me in its story than thoroughly bore me on all fronts.

I want to play this. Didn't they just do an update or new version that has extra modes in it? Like you explore Lara's manor without having fight anything ala some indie game I forget the name to right now.