PixlBit

First thing I noticed on that image was her great big {ahem...}....uhhh...hat! That's it,the hat is huge! Just a really great art style if you ask me. You definitely stated your case well in this blog. Right on the money,too. That Bioshock Infinite cover is horrible,glad they went the other way on that! I finished the game last night. Made me think on the controversy around Elizabeth and her tight corset. Women actually wore those back then,so I get it. Her character is portrayed as strong from the start. You find yourself lacking when she's not there to help out. Gaming needs more of that sort of thing in how it portrays women. But I don't see it as a huge problem at present. But then,maybe I'm just a "pig man"! Great blog,made me ponder on this subject some. Oh! And I did once have Freaky Flyers. Fun game which I enjoyed.

Thanks i assumed this read like the ramblings of a mad man...

Anyway, I'm not much of a feminist or or even equalist (we all can never betreated the same, realistically I mean) but if we must talk about what's wrong with our medium we shouldn't ignore the progress and we should stop sweating the small stuff. We're letting our insecurities get the better of us.

This is like that civil rights game in Family Guy (i know, bare with me) Peter goes "man, how do you win at this game" and Cleavland goes "You just do a bit better each time"

Thumbs up, my man!  I read blogs like this and it makes me happy.  I'm not alone.  I don't know where this "white knight" upraising is coming from, but it's pissing me off.  These people are attacking the wrong "problems".  

I stopped reading his article once he mentioned the booth babes.  It's not like the nerds ask for them to be there.  We love videogames.  With or without the booth babes, I'll still get a hard on from the awesome looking games/comics/movies/anime that are around.  And let's not forget, there are booth dudes too and plenty of women also love booth babes.  

When will these jackasses understand, we don't need another hero.  I'm tired of seeing these ass clowns fighting for the "cause" using the wrong reasons. 

I had half an afternoon, 3 train rides and a walk to think about this, and until I started writing I just couldn't get what was bothering me. And it's that the article misses the big picture.

It acknowledges it, sure but undermines it's own point, these problems start at the top and not to invalidate all the subtle, psychological nuances in anyway but no one had a problem with Kamitani's work till someone created it with the few exceptions and I find that dangerous.

I like this blog quite a bit.

Here's an interesting perspective that a couple women I know talked with me about: God's honest truth, some women have tiny bodies and big boobs.

It's shocking I know, but it happens. Because genes and science.

Now here's something nobody, myself included considered: How is a busty woman to feel when she sees a female in a game that built rather like herself, and all anybody talks about, both gentlemen and ladies, is her boobs? And what's worse, they're throwing around terms like exaggerated, disproportionate, unnatural, and even deformed? Pretty horrible huh? I mean, I don't know about you, but I'd hate to hear people talk about how I look in terms that made me sound like some sort of desirable freak.

I think there's a lot more to be said about THAT than anything else people have said on this topic. It's a lot less about the art. Art is just that. It's about how we're discussing that, and in this case, that Kotaku blogger is actually one of the worst offenders. Now somebody having a problem with that, I can totally get behind.

You speak truth.  I actually remember someone making a similar comment a while back.  I know more than a few women with huge breast and this topic has crossed my mind (sadly, only breifly).  They're not freaks or deformed. 

Some people forget that breast are more than just nice to look at.  They also feed our children.  

Yeah that's another thing, we're calling these sexualised in a way that people apparently like but then deried the look, but then what about those do have naturally big breasts or bums (god bless them). We talk about how the way many idealised woman look aren't the majority but then aren't we then marginalising that minority? See? It's a self fullfilling profecy. 

And so blooming what if it's not functional in ancient greece many warrior women had to chop off a breast in order to fire an arrow, is that what you'd like to see? A woman with a chopped off breast? Oh no then you'll offend all the women who suffered breats cancer.

I'm getting a little ahead of myself here but the point is, you need to keep somethings in isolation otherwise you get my mad sentense above 

That's a really good point,Grant.

I'm quite curious how the writer of the post on Kotaku reacted to last year's Code of Princess. It's a similar style of game with a similar sexual design with its characters. The only difference its its lead artist, ex-Capcom artist Kinu Nishimura, was a woman. Does that mean her design is exempt from critique of its sexual design? No. It doesn't even mean that Nishimura likes that type of design, just something that might have fit the game better. I think it would have made for a much better argument and interesting perspective if he had started by comparing and contrasting those two games. I don't know. Forgive me for rambling.

A friend of mine was personally offended by it cause she has disproportionally large breasts. People don't even think about what they post anymore especially on Kotaku they just go on about how everything is offensive.

All I can say is that I can't wait to play Dragon's Crown because it looks like fun.  Sure the witch and the Amazon look all disproportioned, but they're just video game characters, so I don't mind.  Just as long as they're fun to play as!

I guess I should think more about stuff like that, but I don't.  I just have fun with games.  Granted I'll let folks know about objectionable material in my reviews, but I don't judge it.  i just say, 'Hey, it's there.' 

I remember Freaky Flyers.  That was pretty crazy.  Punch Out is another game that has a lot of blatant stereotypes. 

That's the thing though, it's just getting what does this have to do with the game and how is it so bad that it warrants an article. It's almost snobbish, not wanting to play a game because you don't like one bit of art direction. How grown up.

Men like looking at the female form, plain and simple. And women like looking at pretty boys, otherwise there would have only been one Twilight film instead on 10. As for fighting the good fight I think most women are more concerned with the issue of equal pay and easy access to birth control. All the smart ones know we are suckers for a pretty face and a nice butt and use this to their advantage. They don't let it bother them.

Yep, it's seems only the men see these portayals as a bigger offense than what it is, and what it partly is, is natural instinct the rest is us.

I think both parties are at fault in the Dragon's Crown case. The writer on Kotaku started it poorly. Yeah he apologized and the follow up had some good points but seriously there wasn't any other way to start this discussion by calling out the guy as a 14 year old? That's seriously bad professionalism. Kamitiati's response wasn't any better either, though it might have litterally got lost in translation. On Gamasutra, there's good piece on how negatively his response was taken by one guy. Its seriously sad that we can even come to the table to talk about important things like this in gaming when neither side can't act like adults to discuss it.

This was sensationalised from the start so seeing this spiral out of control isn't suprising but it's the lack of maturity, and it's tipical Kotaku of all sites would ignore cultural and significants and intent of the artual work. It was click bait pure and simple and now the issue is lost and it's about something else entirely (assuimg their was even a legit issue to begin with).

It is a cartoony art style anyways, and therefore things tend to be exaggerated.  Unless I am mistake, what vanillaware puts out tends to be fantastic, so why does kotaku have a problem?

exactly, why pick and choose? All this has done is trivialise a very important issue one that shouldn't have been brought up this way or with this game as an example

Just read most of my blogs and I'm right there with you. I'm more concerned with how real women are treated in the game industry. Be they reporters,reviewers,programmers,or writers I think it's important women feel comfortable in the field.

I also notice female gamer youtubers get a lot of asinine shitty comments. For example, Raychul is often told "I muted you just to stare at your tits". Yes, I realize Ray delibertely uses sex appeal but that doesn't mean she should be disrespected. It seems when women cover up guys ask "Where are the boobies?" but when they expose themselves they get angrily told "You are using tits for hits,slut!".

But hey, let's not worry about how our female brethren are treated in real life. It's much more easy to talk about the proportions and breast physics of fictional characters! It'll make us all feel so intellectually superior next to the gamer simpletons that surround us!

Thank you, seeing Dragon Crown's art as in any way a power fantasy in my opinion is laughable (I mean I don't want a woman with more mucles than me), and compared to worse aspects of mistreatment of women like in my examples are small potatoes. It's getting to the point femnism is for the sake of it and without objective motivation.

I don't mean you have to be selfless in the endecour but causing such a row about this is very presumptous. It's not as bad as fantasy armor when woman characters where less when they upgrade, that's bad (hell it's worse).

However the writers personal hang up clouded the issue.

Nice blog! I'd go as far to say that all that happens when certain complaints are made about the 'representation of women' all that really happens is a new definition takes over. Big boobs have always had a rather large 'audience' that are interested in that sort of thing (probably most men!) but now it seems to have fallen into the 'porn' category. You usually see large breasts used in abundance in mens magazines and of course porn itself. Going back to the 80's/ 90's when shows like baywatch glorified big boobs on TV, it was a mainstream appreciation through one of the only visual media outlets thats could reach millions of people. The internet rolled in and porn became more accessible (and concealable) which gave guys the opportunity to view big boobs all day. Men still find large breasts very attractive.....and always will, it's just now TV and cinema has 'evolved' into showing more 'realistic women' (I use these terms very much tongue in cheek!) and the ladies used are still very pretty, just smaller boobs than Pam Anderson and Co were parading around back in the day. Media outlets (that try to pander to a larger audience, which often include families) have now declared that big boobs mean over sexualisation....... but they are still very pretty. I laugh a little inside when I read about how Lara's new look is much more with the times, I see her muddied face and torn clothes and instantly think of that Shakira music vid wheres she's playing around in the mud. The presentation of women is no better now than it was before as very few companies would make their heroine plain looking or even ugly. It reminds me of a review of the American version of the TV show Skins, comparing it to the British version. One reviewer wrote that American producers are 'too afraid to put ugly people on screen' and he has a point. Large boobs, small boobs, even no boobs at all (see the fashion industry) I can guarentee you one thing: no matter what their boob size they will always be very very pretty, because no one wants to spend 20 - 30 hours staring at a minger.

I genuinely feel sorry for young girls more than young guys because for the fellas 'whats hot' has always been fairly consistent, just have a ripped bod. Sure size can onceagain vary but thats all we need to get our moment in the spotlight. It doesn't matter if its Jean Claud Van Damme or Ryan Reynolds, that amazing bod looks the same on big screens now as it did 20 or even 30 years ago. Girls have so much more change to deal with! but thats not gaming developers fault, it's the fault of 'mainstream media' which to this day is still TV, Cinema and Magazines.

It's true. Girls are taught from very young how they look is the source of their power and their total worth. This is even taught to them to a degree by other women. Females also are forced to spend more on beauty products and clothing unless they want to go the "tom-boy route" and risk being criticized for it.

Good post,Adam!

They either make a huge effort or they don't try at all, a damned if you do situation

We do have steep standards, the new corset is Plastic surgery. I miss the renaisance art with women with curves and decent sized breasts (even if most of them were white ).

We Brits are a little better about showing the beauty of the average woman of all sizes, you should see our How to look good naked stuff. 

It's girls do have a different social presure to endure and it's disproportionate to us males (at least in variety). I think actual physical representation like page 3 girls and the beautiful people of showbiz do greater damage because it makes the reality that much blurry. Come to think of it all those Beauty magazine and gossip mags are worse.

The writers concern was that the art style had no purpose and it's only undertone or motivation was male sexualisation. and I'm saying the sex is comical at worse. Kamitani's first response almost reinforced has original piece but the follow up lacked critical understanding at least not enough for me, the art may have been Juvenile but i give people more credit than to think they think a muscular woman or even high bossomed lady is an offense.

Plastic surgery frightens and disgusts me unless it is used in a benign fashion. Yes, it can be used to help people who need drastic reconstruction (A good example would be a burn victim) but using it only for vanity's sake at a frivilous whim is kind of ludicrous in my opinion.

I also agree the media & Hollywood really warps our perceptions of ourselves. As a male I feel insecure and "somewhat ugly" when comparing myself to celebrities like Leon Dicaprio or Brad Pitt.

I'm sure women feel the same pressure when they think of Natalie Portman, Salma Hayak, or Megan Fox.

I'm not saying we need a regime to de-beautify everything & everyone but hyper-beautfication is a bit damaging to the psyche in certain ways all the same.

Ironically as I say these words I'm sure I'll go back to drawing busty beautiful scantily clad women. I hate myself!

Am I offeing solutions or am I just apart of the problem?

You're offering neither Ben, you just giving your perspective on the world and I thank the big guy in the sky for it!the world would be a pretty boring place if creative people like your self didn't draw what got their juices going, Infact I hate art for arts sake, how many talented people give into pressure about whats 'acceptable' or 'edgy' on the art scene. Your work cannot look its best unless your hearts truly in it!

Couldn't agree more V, It's all about context. A similar argument could be made about violence in video games, I seem to remember a school shooting where the perpetrator enjoyed playing DOOM over and over, I imagine that people who enjoy torturing animals would like films such as Hostel, however just because you enjoy these avenues of 'entertainment' doesn't automatically make you a killer

Throwing out the misogynist at everything is far more misogynist than some sexualized anime/game characters. These people assume women are offended so they go off on pointless rants about nothing. What's even worse is this lead into conversations about "rape culture" on twitter. No one actually talks about real misogyny anymore, and they tend to ignore misandry even exists. It's getting old if you really are for this "cause" youd be talking about actual problems not some character who has big tits in a game.

Thank you very much for the comment, it's the misaplication of the word and the self-righteousness of the thing that offends me the most and what I find damaging to the real propblem. It dilutes the issue with petty concerns. 

Victim culture, White Knight syndrom are a growing problem that solves nothing. As a man i'm insulted that I'm expected to premptly defend the woman folks virtue. where's my slapping glove!

I don't care, I like boobs and tend to sleep with thick women. That is all I have to add.

And now, back to Star Fox 64.

And that's all you need to say

I don't know how many times I've seen an attractive woman and thought, "She looks good, but she would like sooo much better if she had massive breasts, small waist, and legs that make her entire body look like a Thanksgiving turkey."

And you know what: why don't YOU pardon YOUR privilege!

Thanks for the comment. 

The you can point out the sheer silliness of this but making it bigger than what is called for. Mind you you've mentioned someting interesting in the idea of "privilege" and how it relates here, how men in general can talk about this type of sexism all we want but really it's only because we're in a better position to do so (in many respects).

Well, neither comment was meant seriously.  I don't like these kinds of character designs (and the one's in Dragon's Crown have hit a whole new level of grotesque) and I've taken the entire sexism in gaming conversation to heart pretty well.  It exists throughout the culture, even in places many may not really see, and surely there are people who wish to deny or remain oblivious to it.  But the more disturbing and even heart-breaking participants in the conversation have been men who fight the idea tooth and nail, or who actively antagonize females as if gaming were some kind of Old Boys Club.

That's how we should be talking about this in an objective matter and the larger picture and how this relates to the designs if or not it has any damage. 

The Myopia i've seen on the subject is a little annoying.

Honestly... Whenever I looked at the picture I didn't really notice the un-proportioned women, I noticed the frog walking on it's hands first...

Dammit..