PixlBit

Im happy for the changes, Im still going with the PS4, It was gonna be PS4 first before any to start with but with the new changes Ill consider getting the Xbone sooner then I previously said I would. Ill especially get one once a new Gears Of War or Fable 4 is announced and coming out. I am though still being watchful of MS, because your completely right, they can change things yet again if they want too. I however hope they wouldnt be that  low on the stupid scale -_-

I may get an X box 1 too but it'll be after I get a PS4. (We seem agreed on that. lol.) I really want to drive my point home with microsoft.

like BAne says to BAtman, I say to Microsoft: "Victory has defeated you...."

Bane,always knowing what to say! I prefer his coined phrase "I break you!". Simple and to the point. lol.

Then in that sense we are all Bane because we all broke MS with screaming our heads off,lol!

We did put on a good show didn't we? Bravo for us,each and everyone!

Holding a grudge because a business made a stupid decision that has since been rescinded due to consumer outcry is silly. Most big businesses will try to get away with whatever they can to make more money. Microsoft got the stuffing kicked out of it by the consumers and decided that that particular business decision was going to cost them big and reversed said business decision before it actually did. I will wait and see which console has fewer hardware issues and better exclusives before I make my choice, if I even buy a next-gen console, which I may not. Depends on the games, and to be honest, not a whole lot has really been wowing me for the last couple of years.

I will not even buy a PS4 until it has been out awhile,Tami. Aka, I want a good library of games to choose from. However, I think I do hold the right to have a grudge. The point is MS tried to take away all our consumer rights and would have gotten away with it if we stayed complacent and quiet. Sony could have followed suite with microsoft,forcing us to embrace these restrictions as our only choice. Instead, they took a stand for us. I'm not saying Sony is "saintly". Yes, I realize they're in it to make money. But at least they were not willing to do it as much at our expense when compared to microsoft.

And they were arrogant about it. A leopard doesn't change its spots.  Expect more b.s. to come.  And their shit is still price out of the mass market, and for what? More shooters and shaders?

My comment, btw.

I won't be getting a X1, but I'm really happy that they changed their policies. I was seriously worried about the future of the gaming industry. It bothered me a lot, and I don't even really care about modern gaming anymore lol. I'll probably get a PS4 eventually. My backlog is still insane though, and nothing so far peaks my interest, so it might be a while.

Same with me,Aaron. I probably will not pick up a PS4 for another 2 years. I'm very rarely a "Day 1 buyer". I prefer it when consoles have a lot of games by the time I jump on board.

Pretty much agree.

Thanks for dropping in,Joe! Don't get me wrong. I'm happy microsoft changed its' spots.(I'm borrowing terms from you,Chris. lulz!) It's just....once bitten twice shy,y'know?

I'm still not going to get one right away, not until there are enough good games I want to play on it to warrant a purchase.  That's the deciding factor on when I buy a new console.

You already did the right thing,Cary. At least you waited until MS changed up its' policies. I'm gonna wait for "the games" myself!

I'm glad they did this so now I won't feel bad when I buy one (still getting a PS4 first). I would have caved eventually since all their policies, which were complete BS, didn't affect me in the slightest since I buy new 99% of the time, rarely sell my games, etc.

I buy new 99% of the time too. However, I wait for new games to go down in price. I admit getting an Xbox 1 seems more "reasonable" now. I'm simply showing love to the peeps that showed me love first! (At least at "this" E3. Who the heck knows what the future holds!)

Microsoft had to pull certain features because of the change.  All of the features that they cut were the most compelling features to me.  Sharing between 10 "family" members.  Having access to your library wherever you are.  Such a shame.  Damn our hatred.

Normally wouldn't you be able to share your library with unlimited family members? And have access to your library wherever you are too? Oh....oh! Is that sarcasm? lol.

I am somewhat genuine.  The features that I found compelling have been cut.  It would be nice to be able to share with family and friends, but still be able to play them whenever I want.  Being able to access my entire library from any Xbox one, regardless of if it is mine. I was not planning on getting an Xbox one, but now it is exactly like the ps4, except the library of games.  maybe I am crazy, maybe I am wrong.

Yeah it would be cool if you could go to a friend's house and access your games. Have to give props where it is due. But limiting family members per console? "Was" there even a limit before?

wait, what?  I thought that the 10 person limit was for your games, regardless of what console they were on.  So my brother who has an Xbox upstairs, and my brother who lives in Minnesota, and i could all share my game catalog.  If that is not what they were selling, then screw them.

i think that Microsoft had some cool ideas that were underminded by some really crappy ones. 

Regardless, it's good they're rectifying the situation. Aka, buying an Xbox 1 isn't an insane prospect anymore.

One last thought, hopefully.  I just wish that Microsoft wohave or have changed the policies to be exactly like Sony.  Something else to differentiate themselves outside of game library and kinect.  Not that they should have kept all of the old policies.

Well, microsoft can still integrate the positives that set them apart from sony in a good way. Just might take time to do it is all. As it stands they pretty much had to re-format a whole console. After the dust settles they can get a better idea where to go next.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the rumor making its rounds, which is supported by Microsoft's own marketing double-speak, is that the "Family Plan" that you're lamenting wasn't anything more than the ability for gamers to allow up to 9 other gamers who have been on their friends list for at least 30 days to access to a 60-minute timed demo of any of their games. After you've reached that time limit you'd be unable to continue until you purchase the game at full price.

Which makes sense. I mean, how in the world could anyone possibly believe that the same company that was essentially trying to singlehandedly kill the used games market until a few days ago was really going to allow us to share our games with 9 other people? Does anyone really believe that publishers would have allowed it when the XBox One's DRM policies were likely in place due at least in part to pressure put on Microsoft by them to help combat used games? I mean, it's not like we haven't heard from developers over the course of the generation about how much they think that the second-hand market sucks for games, so I'm not sure how anyone could have believed that they were just gonna go ahead and sacrifice up to ten potential sales per XBox One to the "Family Plan". Of course they weren't.

The thing that sucks is we'll never know for sure. It's vastly more favorable for Microsoft to just keep its mouth shut on this one at this point. After all, gamers, without really knowing much about it or how it would work, built the "Family Plan" up in their minds to be this amazing, potentially industry-changing feature, so much so the same gamers are now lamenting its loss and are accusing those of us who value our consumer rights of being luddites. So why be up front about what it was when the reality of it surely wouldn't live up to our expectations, and when Microsoft can simply sit back and watch as the tide of public opinion slowly but surely changes in their favor as people get fed up with being blamed for stiffling progress, even if that progress was just a figment of our imaginations the entire time?

I heard that too.  what I also heard was that report is complete BS.  so, I do not know what to believe.

Yeah, it's generally not a good idea to put much faith in shit that gets posted to Pastebin, but it happens that an insider who had been leaking accurate information to NeoGAF for about a decade now confirmed it along with the 60 minute limit. Take that as you will. 

Like I said, it sucks that we'll never know for sure, but given how shitty Microsoft has been acting lately I'm inclined to believe it. Again, this is the company that just tried to do its part to kill used games, so it's a great deal more farfetched to believe that they ever intended to let us share our games in full with 9 other people than it is that they'd limit play to a timed demo.

Meh, good for them, but i'm not too interested in the news. I'm not very interested in getting an Xbone and every discussion regarding the console has burned me out.

I feel ya, Alejandro. Still, glad microsoft finally sobered up so to speak. lol. Regardless my loyalties are with the PS4. But if I have friends that buy Xbox 1s at least I will not be "angry" anymore. The gamers won and gaming is back to normal. That's what's important.

I applaud Microsoft for their decision to reverse what they had initially planned, but I don't hold that decision against them either. There is a lot of speak about being insincere but for me that was pretty obvious, what I don't really get is the individuals on the net who are tossing off Sony for not being 'retarded'. Both Sony and Microsoft have shit on their customer base on more than one occasion and they will always do so as long as they make money. Microsoft were incredibly honest here and the brutal trurh is that they really don't care, unless the masses speak. Only Nintendo can get away with this level of pig headedness and thats because they are continuing to ride the crest of a wave their franchaises have produced since digital gaming pretty much began. Sony knew better than to make those announcements so soon, especially after the early performance of the PS3.... but they were thinking the same thing. If Microsofts proposals met with anything other than an Ice cold reception you can bet that Sony would have done the same.

Overall this is simply a victory for "us",Adam. Aka, microsoft changed because we refused to be silenced. I'm glad it played out that way because you're right, if we accepted it complacently Sony might have followed suite. (Though based from early interviews Sony seemed pretty okay with used games and offline functionality. Unless they lied about that I don't believe they changed it up at the last second. But hey, I could be wrong. I'm not exactly "in like flint" when it comes to the gaming industry's vault of dirty secrets. lol.)

To be fair your probably right, Sony were more relaxed this time around, It seems that every time one of the big three is king of the console wars, they get overtly arrogant in their next release. Sony ruled after the PS2's success and I think some of that went to their heads when they released PS3. They got some flak however and this time have stood at the back of the class a little more sheepishly while ignorant big boy Microsoft and arrogant know it all academic Nintendo started firing off their shit cannons. Nintendo are paying heavily with the Wii U and whilst it could still take off I think they were too hyped after the success of the wii, failing to realise that the wii catered namely for the causual family scene . Sony have done alright by me this time round.  

But you know what this means,Adam. The PS5 is going to be a terrible piece of shit. Or maybe next gen EVERY console will try to dick us in unison. Fun times,bra!

I don't get that impression myself. In fact while they've had their share of missteps, like Sony and the security breech, or Microsoft with the RRoD debacle, prior to the XBox One DRM kerfuffle none of it struck me as being the result of arrogance or the desire to actively shit on the very people upon whom the companies rely.

What I have seen this generation are folks who fancy themselves fans, but who are only really satisfied for as long as they feel like they're getting what they want. The moment that stops they turn into petulant children, stamping their feet and holding their breath until they are once again given it. I'm not saying that this describes you, but to be honest I do think it informs how a dishearteningly large number of gamers perceive companies this generation. And to be frank, if there's anything that runs the risk of putting me off to gaming altogether once and for all it's that, rather than whatever largely imagined arrogance and hatred that these companies are supposed to be guilty of.

I suppose for me it's just the little things that rile me, the Vita memory cards for example, Sony's argument that piracey was a real issue (which I'm sure it was to a degree) but ultimately they made a fortune off the system because it was good, and people wanted to buy it. Microsoft didn't really screw over the consumer base with the X Box 360, but they did try with the XBone. They pretty much led the last generation (not as easily as Sony did with the PS2 admittedly) and I think this 'victory' went to their heads. The XBone has some very neat concepts and ideas but telling gamers they couldn't purchase second hand games anymore is an insult to the gaming community (or at least buy second hand for very cheap prices). Games for download would have cost the same as disc despite their overheads being lower, it's just a slap in face to be honest.

Now see, that I can dig, Adam. You didn't need to, but I appreciate that you took the time to explain where you're coming from. And y'know, I can't really disagree with any of that.

I admit I've never choosen one side,xion. Aka, in some respects when it comes to gaming maybe I am an honorless mercenary or a kid stomping my feet when I don't get my way. lol. However, with a limited income I have to choose my consumer choices very carefully. Aka, if I was privileged I'd defintely pick up every console at launch. As it stands I can only afford one after some saving.

I don't know just how much about MS is true but amongst the 24 hour check in, 1 hour check in when playing a game at a friend's house, the Xbox one potentially being a useless lump when not online,dictating to us what retailers will have used games (whilst screwing rental places as well as Mom & Pop stores), charging ridiculous fees for indie game developers, originally being region locked, and the fear of NSA trying to use The Kinnect to spy on me it was an easy choice to go with Sony. (Though hey,they're not perfect either!)

Hope that illustrates my point clearer. It's great MS has done a 180 but they still wanted to kinda screw us coming out of the gate.

Ha ha, you called it Ben!

I still don't trust 'em.

If the fix is going to be patched in on day one, then who's to say it won't later be patched out piece by piece? I'm probably going to wait a while before I bother with an X1.

I'm with you Chris. Sly maneuvering or not, Sony supported us out of the gate this time whereas Microsoft went all "big brother corporate commando" on our asses. Sony may not be perfect but I'll stand by them for standing by me. A PS4 will be my first new console but even then I'm not getting one right away. I'll probably need a new pc first.

I'm just glad we can stop talking about it so much. Don't get me wrong, I bashed MS pretty bad too but I'm kind of burnt out on the topic now. It's been, what, a week and a half? Seems much longer. I'll be happy to be focused on games again.

Amen,daftman,amen!

I love the Batman/Joker analogy. And who knows the Joker is still probably up to his old tricks again!

I said before this news happened, it is going to be difficult for Microsoft to win back the consumer's trust, even if they reverse their policies. It's like they put a knife in our backs, but then called the ambulance!

Honestly, I can't trust MS now. In the past I understand why gamers were pissed about the PS3 being too expensive and the original version of PSN not being as good as Xbox live but I don't think there was ever a point Sony tried to screw us over in as many ways as MS has done at this E3 press conference.

I'm with ya Kev. It's nice MS called the ambulance and all but they were the thugs that stabbed my back in the first place. There's still gonna be a scar.

Xbox 180 (hehehe).

Yes,lulz indeed,sir!

I will probably do a pre-order on a PS4 once I get back from vacation in July. I'm glad Microsoft has changed their tune. I want both consoles to do well. That just means more good games for us all. It's a win-win situation. 

It is! But I'm with ya,Celt. Still going with a PS4 first.

Listen, we're talking about a company that claims to have ignored consumer backlash in order to see how well the DRM bullshit would go over once people got a look at its games at E3. We're talking about a company that thumbed its noses at our military service-people by telling them that they can get XBox 360s if they can't maintain a persistent internet connection. We're talking about a company that, even when it finally realized that there was more money to be had by offering consumers a product that they want instead of trying to shove one down their throats that they didn't, went out of its way to portray those of us who value our rights as consumers as luddites by making it seem like they had to cut a lot of forward-thinking features in order to give us what we want. That one came in spite of the rumor making the rounds that it's biggest feature, the "Family Plan", was nothing more than a glorified 60-minute timed demo service, which as we all know has been a feature of PS+ for awhile now without requiring users to always be connected to the internet. This is a company that when asked for reassurance that they wouldn't reverse these policies yet again at some point down the road said that they could not. This is a company that's done a lot to damage the XBox brand in recent weeks, and this reversal of policies isn't enough to fix any of it. Not for me, anyway.

Also, people need to understand that this backpeddling didn't happen because Microsoft genuinely care about what gamers have to say. That's what they want us to believe, but what really happened is that they saw the XBox One's poorer-than-expected pre-order numbers and shat themselves. If our complaining factored into their decision to drop the DRM crap at all, it was only inasmuch as it gave Microsoft a frame of reference for why those pre-order numbers were so low, and it informed what Microsoft would need to do in order to reverse their fortunes. It was a marketing move plain and simple, and I for one aint in any hurry to reward them for it. I think I'll wait until such a time as they should show that they are capable of doing the right thing because it's right, and not because it makes the most business sense.

Suffice it to say that I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

The response to our servicemen pissed me off,mate. "Hey, get a 360!". I wanted to punch Merrick in his smug mug. I agree with all your points and while I realize Sony and Nintendo are greedy and want money too, at least they were not being so unscrupulous about it. Still, we have to remain vigilant. Wouldn't be surprised if any of the three giants we're dealing with try to slip pass bullshit under our radars later. (Though I'm betting MS will be the first serious offender with that. However, if it's sony feel free to say "I told you so,Ben!". lol.)

Sony has managed to earn itself a fair bit of good will by not following in Microsoft's lead with the PS4, and I think that after the missteps that it made going into this generation the company is well aware of the fact that it would be in its best interest to continue to build on that good will rather than squander it. Time will tell, but I get the strong impression that Sony has learned its lessons.

As for Nintendo, for all its faults, be they real or merely perceived, it has always struck me as being a humble company, and one that in spite of the ire it draws from the so-called "hardcore" crowd for not catering solely to it, is the most inclined to do what it feels like it needs to in order to satisfy its fans. It may not always succeed, but I feel like they do try. They've never really done anything overtly evil though, at least not to us anyway, and I don't see that changing.    

Microsoft, however, even now continues to demonstrate its contempt for consumers. It should be laying low, allowing its reversal on the XBox One's DRM policies some time to generate some good will. Instead, the company is doing its best to squander what little that it did manage to win itself by trying to manipulate its fans by dangling the loss of poorly-explained features in their faces, is trying to turn public perception against Sony by making the PS4 look regressive by comparison to what they intended the XBox One to be, and is trying to shame those of us who value our rights as consumers by making it look like those features were dropped as a cost of giving us what we demanded, in spite of the fact that they never really explained exactly what those features were supposed to be in a way that would adequately justify to us the PS3's always-online requirement in the first place. When added to the list of shit they've said and done/tried in recent weeks, it won't surprise me even a little bit if they decide somewhere down the line to either slowly introduce the DRM back into the system, or just totally lose the plot altogether and try to do something equally as ridiculous.

And y'know, while it's a matter of fact that everything that a business does is in the service of making money, everything that Microsoft has said and done in recent weeks makes it blantantly obvious that it sees its XBox brand as nothing more than a means to that end. I don't feel like it got into the industry because it had any real interest in it, but because it wanted a piece of that sweet, sweet pie, and I think that how out of touch with gamers it has demonstrated itself as being over the last couple of months makes that abundantly clear. Maybe that's cynical of me to say, but can you blame me?

That and the fact that microsoft and the NSA are in bed together. Sure, maybe The Kinect doesn't spy on consumers now but MS reserves the right to change that at any time.

It's true MS "services" could have been beneficial but not in the way they were doing them. If they're going to go that route they should study GOG & Steam.

Truth is, they didn't even seem to be marketing the Xbox one to us at all. (And we built up the foundation of the Xbox to begin with.)

Yeah, Nintendo still has region locking and Sony insists gamers purchase a subscription of playstation plus in order to go multiplayer online. But those are small peas compared with all the bullshit policies and restrictions MS was going to heap upon us.

Microsoft can try to make us look like "the unreasonable ones" but I have a feeling it'll back fire as well. All the evidence of their stupidity is already online and they will not be able to erase it from everywhere.

Haha! Great analogy there.

Thanks,setz! Don't get me wrong. I love the Joker but I would hate to be under his rule!

I"d consider it more like a catch-up given how Sony gained a heavy lead with what they offered on the PS4, but it's a war alright: a war that MS has to fight with consumers to show good faith after the mess they made.