PixlBit

Pretty much. MS wasn't offering nearly enough to make up for what I stood to lose. No amount of spin would've changed that.

I feel the same too,gigantor.

However, I'm not mad at my friends who are getting X box 1s. In truth I think it still has the potential to be a great console! I just could not accept it as it orginally was.

If they can somehow incorperate the decent features of the old idea into the positive changes they've already made they will be on to something grand!

Still,it's difficult for me to trust em personally. Very difficult.

 Microsoft, what a bunch of bastards.

Yeah, my opinion is still aligned with yours,Blake! Unless you're being sarcastic. Then the joke's on me. I'm pretty sure you are being sincere though. 

I'm pretty sure I'm just making reference to the IT Crowd when Roy says "People, What a bunch of bastards." Still, I agree with you lol.

It's true. The human race as a collective is ripe and dripping with bastardry!

This.  I fucking love this XD  Personally, I'm an optimist, but it's still funny ;-)

I'm glad they changed their policies, but I still don't trust them. I kinda see where they were going with trying to ease us into the digital age, but we aren't ready for it. I hope that the generation after this isn't all digital. I'll be done with it if that's the case.

I think all digital is fine "if" a console can function even when it is no longer supported. My greatest fear was the X box 1 would stop working when no longer supported online. Aka, even if I had a hard-drive full of great games I would not be able to play them.

Don't get me wrong. I prefer physical copies but a hard-drive full of games is almost just as good so long as I can access it at any time & the console it was dropped into always works.

yeah. If it were to continue to function it wouldn't bother me. I just remember when I moved and didn't have the internet for like a month. I couldn't play any of my games off Steam. I don't mind digital games so much. I just think they should be an option. I like to collect, and tend to play my games over and over. (still playing Contra lol) So a console that wouldn't function without an online connection is like anathema to me. I agree with Macho. It really was too complicated.

Hey man you have a psp right? You've got another three years of gaming goodness before you have to even considering looking at next gen. Just my opinion on the wealth of the psp library. Well said though, whilst I don't totally share your views as I believe all we really did was put a middle finger up to the bigger of two evils.

I agree on the "bigger of two evils" remark. Microsoft was more pushy and anti-consumer this time but last time sony was the same way. (You should work two jobs to buy our awesome system! By the way,giant friggin crab!) I'm really starting to believe in the 3rd console curse theory floating around the internet. lol.

I'm just going to straddle my balls on the fence this coming generation. I'll propbably just buy the better deal. I'm not fussed by either of the console's exclusives but I have a feeling Sony will probably have exclusives more tailored to my taste, later down the road. I'm gutted that I'm going to miss out on tales of xilia and the last of us this gen as well as a few others to boot!

I feel ya. I'm not going to get a new console for another 2-3 years. lol.

I think you and I have come to an understanding, Broken, as we always do. I'd like to ask though, what were you most mad about? I'm purely playing devil's advocate here, which I always find helpful in any discussion. Okay, the used games policy was bollocks. No argument there, and I explained on NWP how they could have fixed that for everyone.

The 24 hour check in wouldn't be a thing if they did things the way I thought they should have, but isn't your 360 connected all the time anyway? I think the 24 hour window was crap. Having 72 hours minimum might have been fine, though.

The region locking isn't anything new. Current gen was the first time I'd seen it opened up so wide,actually. I used to play tons of imports on my PSX with the swap trick, but the PS2 was so difficult to mess with for import games that I got out of it and never looked back.

Again, I'm just curious to hear what people were the most angry about. I'm glad that they are deciding to compete on Sony's level this gen, but we're getting closer and closer to everything being like Steam. That's a bummer for me on multiple levels, but it's a road I'll have to cross when I come to it.

Honestly? I was most angry and even "terrified" about the console potentially becoming obsolete after it no longer was supported online. In retrospect we will never know how it turned out but the very real possibility made the hairs on the back of my neck bristle,Julian. Luckily, with microsoft's changes that will not happen!

Secondly? Mattrick's reply of "Don't have internet? Stay with the 360!" got me pissed off. The fact it was directed at the servicemen & women didn't help.

Even if MS's PR peeps were not right about everything they are seen as a reflection of microsoft's general attitude so yeah, not good. They need better PR.

Lastly, I was miffed about the 1 hour checks when playing a game at a friend's house. That could get annoying really fast.

Sure, there are the asinine comments I had to deal with on youtube and certain game forums too but being I generally am more of a lurker on forums I didn't have to get caught up in most of it. General igonorance and blame-shifting always ruffle my feathers too.

Oh yeah. For the record, when I saw people complaining about the XBO policy shift I had to laugh out loud. My tweet was "you people are never happy, are you?" because it was so absurd to me.

As a collector, I'm also nervous about the console not being supported in the future when it's a digital library. The funny thing is that Nintendo already doesn't do this, and no one gets mad at them. If you have games on your Wii and it breaks or gets stolen, eff you. Nintendo's not going to help, because those games are tied to the console and not to an account. As such, I own no digital games on my Wii, even though I would have liked to.

I think they fixed this with the Wii U, but they do things in such a bass ackwards way that I'm not so sure...

Totally! I'm fine with my game collection being on a hard-drive via downloads so long as my console actually "functions" even when it's no longer supported. When a computer gets older it still works. It might not be the most current piece of tech or the most powerful piece of tech, but it works.

Microsoft had a great idea but their PR and quite a few of their restrictions goofed it up.

It's too bad about the wii. It would be nice to know games are registered to an account even if something happens to the console. That way if you get a new console you get your games back with no hassles.

I was not aware of that.Glad I have been saving my digital stuff to an sd card on my Wii. The only thing I use the internal memory for is game saves.

A console is supposed to be a box you buy to play games. That's the job most people want it to do.  All these 'features' are going to confuse the average consumer, thus alienating them and limiting sales potential. It's too complicated to set up.  The multiple SKUs we had this generation were confusing enough for many people.

Online distribution, cloud gaming - It's not ready yet. We're not ready yet. Not until the terrible online infrastructure in America is improved. Most people have a crap connection compared to users in Europe and Japan, the other two major markets.

I don't mind online distribution,sharing,and networking so long as there's also the option to get a physical copy,Chris. If microsoft had premoted the online benefits and none of their hair brained scheming restrictions they would have been on equal footing with sony. The problem was even "physical copies" for the X box 1 were essentially going to be glorified install discs.

Microsoft had something beautiful but they broke it with their own greed and the limitations,restrictions,and outright neglect they put upon consumers, indie game developers, rental services, and mom & pop stores.

Is that online verification still a go?  If so, Xbox ONe games will not be a retro gaming option in 10-20 years.  But you can still go out and get a NES and some NES games and they'll work like a charm.  

That and anything made with vacumn tubes tends to last longer. There's something sublime and reliable about retro tech! The only automobiles I get a boner for anymore are ones from the 1950's and 1940's!

Wow!  Did you really turn into the Hulk, Ben?

Again, I won't be getting any of the next gen consoles until there is enough good games that I want to play on them.  Then I'll start thinking about it.

Same here,Cary. It's all about a great gaming library for me! That takes time for new consoles to accumulate.

I'm a fiend for games, so I'll probably get an Xbox eventually.  I fucking hate them though.  And I hate that Kinect is involved.  I especially hate their attitude, like telling people to buy 360's if they can't handle their bullshit policies.  Dammit, I'm STILL mad!

I'm not saying not to get an X box 1. At the end of the day a gamer is about the games,Matt. Microsoft already has a few nice exclusives so I can understand the temptation. But yeah, I'm kind of mad. Probably why I should stay away from game forums & youtube awhile. The comments in those places just make me madder!

"Wiseman say, Forgiveness is divine, but never let an evil corporation off the hook after trying to fuck you over." Yeah, I misquoted Mikey just a bit but it works, lol. Anyone who would just let this slide is a shameless pud who deseves to be screwed. I have not bought a pair of Nike shoes in over ten years because of their labor practices. I will not do buisness with scum if I can find an alternative. What people seem to miss is the fact that they WERE going to do this and had no qualms about it. Its like someone admitting that they were planning to rape your teen daughter but since you figure out what they were up to they changed their mind. No hard feelings right? Extreme example yes, but its the same kind of menatlity.

Personally I will not forgive for quite awhile,Gemini. However, I'm not going to "rage out of control" every time a friend picks up an Xbox 1. I also remember Sony's remark about working 2 jobs to buy their system. The original price point on a PS3 was kind of ridiculous too.

However, for the time being Sony is more or less behaving and they did step up to the plate supporting us from the start. Even if they were doing it just to spite microsoft, they could have went with the exact same business model instead. At that point we would have complied to consumer enslavement because there would have been no other choice. Sony deserves honorable mention for giving us an alternative. No, they're not entirely clean and we both know smiling ninjas kill people from time to time but hey, sony is the lesser of two evils right now.

Lastly that is a good example even if it is a bit "extreme". lol.

People are going to do what they want but I live my life by ceratin principles and it takes a lot to force me to bend on them. Sadly the lesser of two evils is the nature of the civilized world, what helps one hurts another. But at the end of the day this is not food, clothes, medicine, or a car. Its just a video game console, a luxury item that I don't need. People should keep that in mind.

That's the problem with geeks though. lol. A real zombie break out could be happening around us and we'd be arguing about consoles,comic book characters, and movies. Kind of screwed up priorities if you ask me. Guess we'll be the first to get eaten at our computers while everyone else is scavenging for supplies and trying to find shelter.

Oh and Loki getting thrashed by Hulk is probably one of my favorite movie beatdowns ever! Joss Wheadon is a genius.

Ha! ha! ha! I agree. I loved it when Banner said "Puny God" and just kept walking. Joss knows how to write epic characters in a way that humanizes them & keeps them down to earth. It's always been his greater strength.

Microsoft are increasingly bitter due to the realisation that it was not them that could ultimately decide what the future of gaming was. I actually understand their desperation to innovate and push technology to the next level (Apple are great examples of this, I’m not a huge fan of them regarding their policy decisions but have to admit the I pad, I pod movement has inspired many) In truth I think they are right, the future is very much ‘on line’ but their bedside manner was all wrong, particularly over the concept of online only. In-fact their policies as far as I’m concerned would have lead to much more piracy, not being able to loan or buy second hand would have led people to taking advantage on their ‘online only’ setup. You can’t disguise monopolisation on this scale and I think to claim other wise is pretty absurd. Their idea about sharing games was clearly an afterthought as were all the explanations, they purposefully left it vague to gauge the reactions of the public, and in my opinion to ‘see what they could get away with’. They can piss and moan all they want, I don’t buy it!

I thought they had great ideas for online services. Yet it was like "Hey, I'm going to give you this pretty bird but not before I clip its' wings so it cannot fly." For every merit there was a backwards policy or a messed up restriction that threw a wrench into the gearworks,Adam.

It also appalled me just how many people microsoft's negative laws could cause harm to. Aka many of their would be plans seemed capable of dicking over people over seas, people in rural areas, independent retailers, indie game developers, and people living in impoverished areas with poor electric grids.

  They were trying to create a pyramid where they were on top, game stop was the left corner, and greedy game publishers were the right corner. If you happened to operate outside that structure you were royally boned.

Also, let us not forget the eye on top of the pyramid, aka microsoft's connections with the NSA. I'm already tired of the government and advertisement firms  mining data from me on places like facebook and twitter. The kinnect's double purpose as a potential spy cam really breaks the camel's back for me!

I believe some of what microsoft suggested is our future. Aka, digital distribution,digital sharing, and digital networking will become more common place across multiple platforms. The problem is microsoft took these concepts and screwed up a potentially good thing!

After Edward Snowdens revelations about US intelligence I would say that Microsofts 'eye in the sky' is a major concern too Ben, some people claim to 'over react' but Microsoft has to be the richest company in American History so to say that there is the potential for a team up with the NSA (at least on some level, Microsoft is far too big for Bill Gates to know everything that is happening!) isn't too far of a stretch as far as I'm concerned.

It's more difficult to believe microsoft is NOT somehow in league with the NSA than it is to believe they are. Especially after Edward's confessions. Sure,certain people will call me a conspiracy nut but my ramblings have a basis in facts. lol.

Im still waiting and seeing about how the Xbone is gonna play out till I buy one. Im still a lil unsure of MS and quite frankly I think a few of the workers there are stuck up bastards. Atleast thats how they showed themselves to be with the Xbone. I agree with you 100%, you gotta stand up for the stuff you feel strongly about are people are jsut gonna walk all over you. The PS4 is gonna be my first next gen system.

I'm betting MS is gonna drop the price to be neck and neck with sony. I can't complain about that since either way it's good for gamers,Nicole. 

I also agree MS needs better PR. Almost every MS spokesperson comes off as an arrogant-reality-challenged-humanity-detached-narcissist.

The PS4 will be my first next gen system too but I might throw microsoft a bone eventually. (If their exclusives are good enough that is. And hey, I really love my 360 so microsoft has potential!)

Im betting so too on the price drop, It will prolly be awhile but it will most likely happen. I dont think they will before launch because they already dropped a lot of the original policies for it not to mention they still say the price is worth 500 because their giving you the kinetic bundled. Sony stated they dropped having the camera bundled for a cheaper price. If the Xbone gets Fable 4 and Gears of War on the system then it will def be a go for me to get the system but other then that, Ill take my time in getting it.

I wouldn't even jump on board for Fable or Gears Of War but I understand why others would. Criticisms aside, I really loved both those franchises.

It's kind of weird. A part of me does want to forgive microsoft but the other part refuses to. Guess I'm still divided on the issue. But that's my personal cross to bear. Noone else has to and I do not expect it of them!

Yeah, it baffles me that they think we are "wrong" and apparently, we don't know shit...

No mather if they changed their policies, Microsoft has already made a sour taste in my mouth and there's not much I can forgive to them. For me, it also shows how desperate are Microsoft, like being an artist, musician, little kid, etc, that caveats for atention by saying "Hey! Look at me! I've changed!".

I agree. I'm slow to trust microsoft. However, I'm glad people spoke with their wallets and as a result microsoft finally did listen. I also think some of their online options can be great for functionality,networking, and sharing if implemented properly.

Guess we'll have to watch their next play,Alejandro.

The way I see it with Microsoft is this...

If I were to walk in on my Wife sucking 20 dicks (at once), I wouldn't be so apathetic whenever she apologized. Why should I feel apathetic whenever Microsoft apologizes for such an appalling act?

Exactly Chris. When your trust is betrayed it leaves a scar and it takes time to heal. You can't simply be like "Oh, I forgive you ya big lug,give uncle Chris a hug!"

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy microsoft listened. But they didn't change out of altruism. They changed because they were losing money. If they could have gotten away with it they would have dicked us.

Still, I see what sony is pullin with its' whole "To play multi-player online you have to buy a subscription to playstation plus!" It' the only dirt I have on em so far based on this E3 but it is worthy of mentioning. lol.

Wait, was that a Clerks reference? I'm gonna pretend it was.

I took more of an afraid of the future approach when the XBO was first announced, and was kind of pissed that this was where we were going, but ultimately thought, "well, I sat out this gen, I can do it again." Then PS4 at E3 made me want one, but I'm still going to have to pony up the cash (by pony up, what I really mean is decide the student loan rate doubling doesn't affect me buying something as unnecessary as a Japanese gaming system, which may or may not happen depending on what jobs I land in the near future) to get one in the first place. At least it's the cheapest non-Wii U option.

Honestly, I'm wondering how much Microsoft actaully affected with the change, considering a lot of people complaining don't seem to have been planning on buying next gen at all according to comments. How true that is, I don't know, but food ... I got distracted.

I want to go into next gen but it will not be for 2-3 years, Joe. By then the PS4 and Xbox 1 will have more robust game libraries and all the bugs will be worked out. I dunno, buying a brand new console at launch seems kind of silly to me personally. I know some of my friends may disagree with my philosophy but I'm a patient "wait and see" kind of guy.

I think a lot of people have that sentiment after last go-rounds' RRODs and whatnot. Being a Nintendo faithful for all the systems I owned, and sitting out last gen, I never had to worry about any of that, but there's clearly evidence these new home computers will shit bricks out of the gate, and I'm not willing to learn that the hard way, when I can just glean that lesson from others online.

Nintendo is good at stability and quality control. I gotta give them that! I didn't have any problems with my PS2 but that's because I bought it 3 years into the console's shelf cycle. I had to send my 360 in to be repaired once and that's when the cheaper "arcade edition" just hit.

That was definitely a Clerks reference, good job recognizing it man! lol

I'm not ashamed.  The main things that pissed me off about the XB1 was #1. used games bullshit and #2. the console needing to check in online.  I freaking hate digital games.  There are so many problems with it.  The biggest problems are prices and not being able to trade or resell games.  MS was basically making physical games into digital games.  As for being online, it should be an option and not mandatory.  People don't understand that a console is an all-in-one machine.  I hook it up to my television and bingo I'm done.  It's an add-on to things I already have.  Electricity and a TV.  Everything I need to use the console should be in the box.  Is the internet in the box?  NO!  That's anothing fucking bill.  On top of that, I can't bring the console with me on vacation.  There are plenty of places I visit that don't have internet.  The bottom line is, if my consoles need the internet to use them, then I might as well focus on the PC.  At least I can play games on a PC without the internet.  Even some PC games that require internet connections, have ways around that bullshit.  

I'm cool with downloading games digitally onto my hard-drive. That is so long as A. My console never becomes an obsolete useless paperweight so long as it is well taken care of and B. My downloads are somehow linked to my account so even if I have to replace a console I'll still have my games.

"All digital" isn't necessarily the devil but microsoft went about it all wrong,James.

I'm just not optimistic about digital gaming.  It's fine for PC, but not for consoles.  Consoles are already resticted as it is, and I don't really believe publishers will have the consumer's best interest in mind when it comes to game ownership.  They're already making it hard for us to own our games.  Even with downloads linked to your account, they still control the "bank" and, within the fine print, they have the power to do whatever the hell they want with it.  I would just much rather have control of my games "off the grind"; physical & digital. 

Well, luckily "we won" this generation,James. Microsoft saw its' preorder sales on amazon were tanking so they actually listened to us. lol.

Being an old school dinosaur myself, I'm happy with the outcome. However, if a game company really perfected the art of online distribution,online sharing, and online account tracking it wouldn't be that bad. (If they didn't spy on me, didn't make me pass through 1,001 digital check points,gave me freedom of choice when it comes to retailers, and treated me like an actual human being,heh.)

I wasn't ever really mad, I would have just never bought their console because it would have turned into a brick 10 years down the line. Fortunately that was not the case. Even though they majorly backpedalled, I think that eventually their anti-consumerist policies will make them greedy again. But then again, that's what happens in a capitalist society where big business has all the power. =P

There are good things about capitalism but America has let it go too far. Aka, big businesses fund poltics and through that they can change the rules. We haven't been a true democracy in awhile.

Still, it was nice our colletive discontent made microsoft reconsider,Setz!

I totally agree. If there was another revolution and the people got to change the rules, my first change would be to make it illegal for any business or person from a business to give money to politicians. They're more corrupt than lawyers these days!

Yup, every huge campaign trail for a political canidate has big companies backing it. You just know polticians and big businesses are making behind the scenes deals with each other.

#2 is the core of my problem with them. The profits they would have[and will!] make from observing our reactions to ads,shows and demos of games. It can't be stopped I think. They will do it to us. Nothing wrond with getting irate about it. We're all human beings with emotions. Sometimes you just gotta let it out. Purge that bile out of your system!

Well, I have a facebook account so I know I prtty much already get spied on for advertisement data and other things. lol. Still, something about the kinnect came seems more intrusive to me somehow. Probably because it would actually be in my living room.

Good! Don't apoligize one bit. You were upset over the XBox One. you have a right to make your feelings made known. From what I gather you were not saying or demanding anything that would warrant it being horrid?

I didn't notice you being crass or insulting or belitting the Xbox One policies, you made your displeasure known. I only wish we had other games like you would could vent their frustrations in a way that is colorful to get the point accross. I understand there are times when it could go too far but I didn't catch that jist from you.