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I think an "adult" JRPG would be boring. I mean real "adult" stuff, not just more violent and darker versions of boys' adventure fantasy.  Real adults have to contend with such things as employment, taxes, marriages, relationships, law, crime, property, finances, family duties, etc. --not demons and mecha and dreamlands or anything fun and colorful. So no, I don't think they should make more adult games. They should just do what they're already doing, but add more blood, violence, serial killers, grimdark, anti-heroes, 'serius bzness,' Hollywood tropes, etc. That's gotta work for the super mature adult gamerz of today, right?  

Or maybe there's a secret skill in presenting rpg/anime cliches in a likable way,Chris. lol. For example, I still love the Y's series and have a difficult time justifying why I do. If I were to guess it's probably because X-seed is good at taking "predictable stories" and mixing them with likable characters. That seems oh so simple to do but it's really not.

I wouldn't mind more grim-dark. That's how we got Dark-souls and Dragon's dogma. If they were able to take that same "grim-dark" and put it in a modern day Japanese setting that would be really neat. The Persona series does that a little bit but I've sort of noticed the later games have "lost the dark" & "lost the grit" in some ways.

Don't misunderstand me. I love Persona 3 and Persona 4 but they don't seem quite as intense & foreboding as the previous entries. Aka, they need to put more Mega-Ten in the mix again!

I'm just having a bit of fun with the idea of 'adult' games  Real adult stuff is boring and soul draining, lol. 

No, I think what we're looking for is that dark -I call it: texture. Like old Disney movies. It contrasts the light, and provides a sense of peril and evil that makes the heroes' adventure meaningful. It's a texture that makes the big picture more interesting. But the fun is still there, the positivity, the charm.  I think too many games have 'negativity' or nihilism in them nowadays. That's no fun. It's pretentious most of the time.

But personally, what I'd like to see in JRPGs is mostly design based. More adventure game elements, like the SNES Shadowrun game; solving mysteries, piecing together clues, getting information from characters, finding items to advance the plot or open up new areas. I'd also like divergent quest threads or story threads like in some WRPGs, but maybe not as complicated. Less anime tropes. Different art styles (which ties into less anime tropes). More humble adventures, instead of epics (applies to RPGs in general).

I agree with your "dark" sentiment. Dark doesn't have to mean finding cannibalized half eaten corpses. Sometimes it can be simply using dimmer color tones and using subtle atmospheric effects such as imposing shadows spreading across the wall when the lightning temporarily illuminates a mansion hallway.

"Going extreme" isn't always the right answer.

I likewise would like to see more diversified art styles featured in Japanese rpgs as well as the inclusion of more choices.

The last JRPG I played was Final Fantasy 13 and 13-2. I don't really get too much into RPGs in general, but I do miss the stuff we got during the SNES and PS1 days. I can go back and play some of those over and over. That is pretty sad that Japan has some of those mores and restrictions. I'll probably still be playing games when I'm 90 lol.

Yeah, it's a weird double standard,Aaron. For example there will be game composers performing with an orchestra and they're totally revered yet if someone is a Japanese gamer in his/her late 20's other people will think something is wrong with him/her. I mean,wtf? Revere games as art yet shit on the adults who enjoy them? Oh,Japan! You so crazy!

I think of you every time I play Project X-Zone because of the Gods Eater Burst characters.

I miss the 16-bit RPG days, myself.

I think we all do,Cary. Missing the old school era in rpgs I mean!

I think you're going to love next week's NWP, Ben. Reviewing Time and Eternity has me itching to talk about JRPGs in general, and that's what we're gonna do.

The funny thing is that RPGs used to have more diverse casts, both in age and background. I always go back to Final Fantasy IV and VI, who each had old men, little girls, and nearly everything inbetween. Well, except minorities. Seems like Squaresoft didn't realize people have different skin tones until FF VII. While there have been a few notable examples of more grizzled characters (still love Auron), they end up taking supporting roles.

I don't know. I'd love to see older characters or something that's different from the norm with JRPGs. I really don't think that younger Japanese players can only connect with a game if the protagonists are also young men. Besides, the video game market is far larger in the West now, and it would be nice to see that reflected. Time and Eternity gets some propers for having the story center on a woman, but then I take points away because it's the young man that's actually telling the story.

Torally Julian. If you compare the diversity of protagonists from say FF6 and compare it to FF 13 there's a huge descrepency. I really like the "older grizzled characters" too and would like to see more of that. Barret, Cid,Cyan, and Auron were the shit! Cloud was "aight" but he had competition from a guy who looked like Mr. T and who had a friggin gun arm. Guess who I thought was "cooler"? 

I think Japan really needs to get pass this whole "Be ashamed of games" phase. It's so out of place how they revere game design as high-art yet then shun gamers if they keep gaming as adults. It's trifling and I can't comprehend it.

And it's not as if Japan can't make edgy, deeply sophisticated, and mature games. We know they can. They just seem to go through long lulls when they don't.

Regardless, I'm hoping they're realizing there are many proud adult gamers out there and as such they don't have to push all their games only at impressionable White & Asian teenagers. It would help leaps and bounds if they stepped up the diversity. They're capable of great things. They just need to take more risks. How bad could it be? I mean Dark Souls & Demon souls were risks and look just how quickly those games flew off shelves! Not saying all Jrpgs should be like the souls franchise but I am saying the demographic for gamers is varied when it comes to age,gender, and ethnicity. Japan needs this epiphany!

I'm not a huge fan of action-rpgs, and I find that those are pretty much what is being churned out these days. I don't mind the cliched stories and young protagonists so much, but it is nice to see rpgs with heroes like Yuri (or would he technically be an anti-hero?) and Kaim for a change.

Yuri and Kaim are great examples,Tami. Like you I don't know why modern Jrpgs have tried so ardently to phase out turn based systems. Granted I've "liked" certain Jrpgs with action combat but then again I have equally liked games such as Dragon Warrior 8, Persona 4, and Shadowhearts.

I think the key to making a "good cliched Jrpg" is that it has to be able to make fun of itself within a certain capacity. Thousand Arms is a great example. xD

I'm charmed by self aware parodies as well. lol. A lot of that goes on in Shadowhearts covenant. (Yet it's sad and melancholy in places too.)

ps- I think the 20-somethings of Japan and all Hikikomori should game! x)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

In a nutshell....

Japan: We revere game design as high art! Game soundtrack symphony orchestra time,bitches!

Japan: Be ashamed you still play games,Hikikomori! You have serious problem!

Me: Wtf,Japan! Hypocricy much?

For me, the days of JRPGs were in the PS2 era..... I played Radiata Story, Hack GU, Steambot chronicles such amazing games that is still have to this day. Yet in this new generation of console i didn't enjoy JRpgs as much as i did in the PS2, But Ni No Kumi restored some faith and I hope to see another JPRGs like that.

We're on the same wavelength. There were some Jrpgs I enjoyed this gen but I have fonder memories of the PS2 days,Dragon.

Adult? I thinks handling a story in a mature way is probably a better way to say it. Then again I really don't have much expertise in the JRPG genre.

By "adult" I didn't mean XXX porno. Like you I meant "mature". (Though sometimes I do enjoy cheesy immaturity. Uh, sorry. I'm all over the place today,heh.) I should have been clearer. Given the funny picture I used to represent this blog I can understand why there is some confusion. lol.

I think the JRPG's you like are different because despite them having some anime cliche's, they come abouty as if they were more of a "coming of age" story. the heroes started off as kids but eventually had to not only save the world, but grow up in the process. Besides the usual leveling up from fighting, their characters showed a sense of maturity that is lacking with current JRPG's that seem to focus on the cliche and stick to it. Sure the main characters go thru stuff but they don't seem to mature from them. Also if I recall in Lunar Fresca ends up getting pregnaut at the end of the game. Though I wondered how she got the time for such action given how she was fighting off the Magic Emperor's forces during the assault on the Grindery.

It's true. Many of my favorite Jrpgs are coming of age stories. Even in Chrono Trigger Crono grew as a person. Sure, he was "silent" but everything tempered him into such a good & selfless person he sacrificed his own life to save his friends. I thought it was great how a big chunk of that game focused on finding a way to save the main character and bring him back from the dead. Crono is endearing because as brave and gallant as he was he was also fragile and mortal.

Kinda curious when you mentioned that videogames in Japan are considered "childish", since it also reminds me that Anime is also considered (atleast as far as I know) "childish" coming from the country that created the medium. Just to show that even Japan isn't an exception of the Animation Age Guetto.

It's messed up,really. Aka, after a certain age Japan expects its' people to drop all anime and videogames entirely. Yet they're responsible for supplying their people those diversions to begin with.

I'm glad I don't live in Japan because if someone tried to shame me for my love of cartoons,manga,anime,comic books, and games I'd give them the finger and tell them to fuck off.

I uh ... yeah, not a JRPG gamer. I like what Machocruz said about dark and adult being two different things. I just watched the season finale of Avatar: The Last Airbender Book 2 to follow along with Doug Walker's vlog series chronicling his experiences with it, and I think a lot of the messages in it are much more mature than many "adult" shows, in part due to their positivity, and desire to solve problems instead of giving into despair. 

Where the fuck am I going with this?

I get what you mean. There is such a thing as "immature" adult humor. lol. I even like it sometimes. However, I think it says a lot when a show or cartoon can address important issues in a mature and thoughtful manner without cheap parlor tricks or gratutious fan service. (Not that I'm against fan service.....in moderation.)

While it is fucked up that Japan looks at gaming like that, we gamers are still judged for similar things here. It isnt done as much anymore but we still occasionally get people who think gaming is childish. One of my fave RPGS Final Fantasy 9 I think tackled some mature themes, the major being life/death. It did use some young characters of course has protaganist but the themes were pretty mature. However they tackled it I guess in a way younger kids could understand. I mean I understood it pretty well as a kid.

FF9 was the last "old school" FF in my eyes. There was a lot in it that harkened back to FF 4 and FF 6 which was just fine by me. Then again,  FF 10 and FF 12 had their own personal charms too.

I don't know why I've been so bullishly stubborn to keep away from FF 13. Well, it has become a trilogy so maybe I'm simply waiting for the inevitable boxed set bargain!

Whoa.. I was completely unaware of the changes made in Nier!!

When it comes to my preference in JRPGs, I'm kind of indifferent in a sense I suppose. I love the old-school style of Lost Odyssey, but I also have a LOT of love for the newer styled RPGs such as Dark Souls or the Tales series. As long as the genre as a whole doesn't die off, I'm happy!

Agreed even thou I agree with alot of your points as long as they do not go away, I am happy!!

Jrpgs are a lost art..It is a shame.

I'm the same,Chris. I can dig turn based rpgs yet also get into more actiony rpgs like Dragon's Dogma and Tales Of Vesperia. My only problem is when the combat system becomes a confusing chore. As much as I love Vesperia it was very difficult for me to get a hang of its' battle eccentricies. They were adding new mechanics half way into the game! 

I'm not too against anime cliches in JRPGs as I'm a big fan of anime. However, if they are used enough that the game seems generic (Time and Eternity seems like a good recent example), then it's a problem. As well, I don't like action-RPG focus that JRPGs have been this generation.

I would like RPGs to go back to the PS1 era because back then it seemed like the writing was the strongest and the battle systems could be quite experimental some of the time (I am a little against the PS2-era because many games seemed to try and copy FFX in terms of presentation!)

I feel torn on Old School versis new school Jrpgs,Kev. As much as I want more games like Persona 4, Xenogears,Dragon Warrior,and Shadowhearts I really enjoyed action Jrpgs like Nier and Dragon's Dogma as well.

However, I think the problem we both have is Japan seems to be trying to phase out turn based rpgs entirely which in my personal opinion is a bad move.

I think more strategy & tactics can go into a turn based system & sometimes it's more enjoyable to think as opposed to "mashing buttons to win".

I have a fondness for the snes and psone jrpgs.  I can only think of a handful of jrpg that captured my attention in the ps2 era, and even less from the current generation.  I do still have xenoblade, the last story, and pandora's tower to play, so that may change.

For me the end of the PS2 era was the end of Jrpgs being a dominant force. However, though I didn't dig as many Jrpgs this generation it's nice to see Japan try new things. I just hope they know that not every rpg can be Dark-Souls and if they try to copy that formula too much in multiple new ips it'll eventually end up backfiring in their faces.

Personally I like Jrpgs having a bit of Japanese flavor in them. Over westernization loses some of that inherent charm.

even though I know that there are many different aspects of a game that help define it as a jrpg, I seem to be stuck in a realm where nearly all jrpgs need to be turnbased.  The more action oriented the japanses rpgs become the more they lose my interest.  I think that I just have a really archaic definition of jrpg stuck up in my head.

I love JRPG's.  Everybody else can go to hell.     That being said, there are some real stinkers out there, and a lot of mediocre ones that are even worse.  Have you played Lost Odyssey yet?  That's an awesome one.

I'm sure I'd love Lost Odyssey,Matt. The biggest problem right now is it's really expensive at most places or sold out.  And considering it was done by some of the same team members who did Shadowhearts I'm sure I would have song its' high praises to the heavens!

that's too bad.  I guess because it's so many discs and it wasn't a big success they never did another printing. 

Probably the case. Shame too considering Lost Odyssey had one of the best rpg stories of all time. Or at least that's what I've picked up on from first hand accounts.

it has great music too.  Nobuo still has it.

I think anime tropes and cliches are part of charm, part of what makes it a "JRPG." Now, granted, I haven't played a lot of the famous games in the genre--Xenogears, FFVIII and onwards, Lunar, any numbered Dragon Quest--so maybe I just haven't been oversaturated yet, but I like them the way they are. And it probably helps that those things remind me of the SNES RPGs I played as a kid.

Overall I love Jrpgs but that doesn't mean I take to every Jrpg like a fish to water. lol. There have been some "real duds" in my opinion. But overall I adore Jrpgs as they are, cheese and all!

Some of my friends gave up on Jrpgs years ago but I'm still onboard and proud of it. I mean I did recently by the Y's chronicles off steam.  

I hate when people bash Japanese RPGs because they're not more like Western RPGs. Hello! They're supposed to be different! I would say that JRPGs are their own subgenre now and it irks me when people complain that they don't feature branching dialogue trees and massive open worlds. I'll play a WRPG if I want that. What's wrong with some variety?

I like my JRPG's the same way I like anime. Space travel,giant mechs,futuristic settings,guns,and such. Never realized they put that pressure on Japanese males to stop gaming at a certain age. So they can graduate to more mature activities like riding the "brothel trains" and looking at hentai? I think gaming is healthier for you. The two you mentioned I really want to play are Lost Odyssee and Shadow Hearts.