PixlBit

Well, I agree with everything you said, and you eloquently put into words my feelings on the subject, so bravo for that. 

And when you said the joke earlier about women being too weak to defend themselves, good job on putting the disclaimer there. In one of the videos that I shot, one of the guys said "Darby, girls have to have the god cheat on to be good gamers" (after I told a story). I of course knew he was joking and took no offense, but a few people did. I think everyone's a bit too sensitive now.

 Yeah. I tend to think if you want to be treated equally, you should accept jokes at your expense. If you don't, you're segregating yourself from everyone else. That's my opinion anyway. I'm probably wrong, as per usual. I do agree with people being overly sensative though. It is kind of ridiculous.

 Also, thank you!

Well if girls are allowed to make jokes at guys, which they do, or make comments about how all guys are "hateful pigs" or something to that effect, then they should expect the same. Everything goes both ways, and I think people start to develop a sense of entitlement, which is generally wrong.

 Yeah I suppose. Then again you have to guage who you are talking to. Men and women are all individuals with different upbringings and you kind of have to take that into consideration before a jest. I wouldn't make Holocaust jokes to someone who was in a P.O.W. camp, but if I had a Jewish friend who I knew could take it, I'd go nuts. If you are making jokes about someone though, expect it back. People are all assholes, not just men or women.

I think reviewers commenting on art style and politics is valid, although not something I look for, but her review was lacking in detailed analysis of game mechanics. "Repetitive" is a token criticism that can be applied to the great majority of games since you will repeat the same actions over and over and over. There is no insight there. Basically, it was the typical modern game review. Long on ancillary features, short on game mechanics.

EpicNameBro on Youtube is where you want to go to actually learn something about the game.

 Eh, I think it's a well written review. She touches on the portrayel twice in the article. All the rest is about the game. She gave enough detail for people o decide whether or not they'd like the game or not, gave a good indication of how it played. For instance, these two paragraphs go into a decent amount of detail about the gameplay:

"Levels are set on a 2D plane, often filled with enough enemies to completely cover the screen. The pace is relentless. I sometimes lost track of my own character amid the chaos, but this isn't really a problem. Dragon's Crownrewards bombastic moves and has little patience for subtlety. While you can block and parry, it's more effective to mash the attack button and dodge only as needed.

Dragon's Crown's combat system is bolstered by its enemy variety. There are dozens of different beasts, mythological creatures and medieval jerks to beat up, all in their own themed stages. Some levels have you facing off against hordes of undead, while others feature demons, orcs or, you know, possessed tiger-dog … things. It's not just a game of numbers either; every enemy type requires a unique approach. Flying demons call for well-timed jump attacks, for example, while lumbering undead need to be beaten into a pulp at close range then avoided as they explode into green goo. The monster diversity helped to counteract the combat's mechanical simplicity, which is especially well realized in Dragon's Crown's boss fights."

There are all kinds of subtle mechanics in the game that most reviews don't mention. Subtle for brawlers at least. That's what I mean by it being a typical review. It's not the review of a person who has expertise on the mechanics of the game or the genre. That's something I personally want to know when I see a score attached, is what I'm saying. I see too many game reviews that strike me as suspicious when they dole out 10s or 5s but are about as in depth as the reviews in the local paper.  I think to myself "is there an agenda here?" And I do think the art style was a major factor in her review score, which is valid, if not what I personally think should carry that much weight. Other than that, the review makes the gameplay look as good as any of the repetitive, simplistic AAA games that get 8+ scores. *shrug* different strokes.

Yeah I suppose. I don't think there is any agenda there, just inexperience. That could be inexperience reviewing proffessionally or inexperience with the genre. If I were to do a review of this genre I imagine it would be quite similar. Give me a review of a western rpg, a horror game, or a skating sim and I could give you 4 pages. Also, a lot of sites have word limits. People have shorter attention spans these days, and sites try to give as much information as they can in a short amount of time.

 I guess what I'm saying is that if you want that sort of depth, go to a site that caters specifically to that genre. Those people know the ins and outs of a genre, and since they're going for a niche audience who are already extremely invested in the genre, they can go nuts with their reviews. A site like IGN, Gamespot, or Polygon really can't afford to or they'll lose the viewers interest.

I kind of feel like the faux-outrage about Danielle's review has less to do with the fact that she raised the issue of Dragon Crown's portrayal of women, and has a lot more to do with how it appears (if you're stupid) to have had an impact on her review score.

See, some gamers just haven't quite figured out what an opinion is, and can't handle the possibility that a game that they decided was going to be awesome based on a few dozen screenshots and a couple of gameplay trailers might not be after all. So they'll cherry-pick shit from a review and harp on it in a sad attempt to discredit the entire review, because fuck intellectual honesty, apparently.

So yeah, I just feel like people are harping on the matter of sexism in videogames because they stupidly believe that Danielle started the review at 10 points, and similarly to how Dick Solomon removed a dollar from his waitress' tip whenever she did something he didn't like in that one episode of "Third Rock from the Sun", removed a point from the game every time she encountered a character in the game whose proportions put her off.

 Which is retarded. I think it's made worse by the fact that other game sites gave it higher ratings. I mean shit, look at the comments on Gamespot's review of The Last of Us for having the Audacity to give it an 8. Which coincidentally is what I would have given it.

 Reviews are opinions given by someone who has experience in a field. That's all they are, and that's all they ever will be. People need to learn this.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir, man. I don't disagree with you. ;)

I know. Just venting a little lol.

Gotcha. I don't blame you. I had to swear off reading the comments to reviews altogether because that shit just got too annoying for me to handle.

I think I pointed out on Nicelob1989's blog some time ago that I thought the comically oversized boobs just looked silly. She liked them. I still think they're a bit comical in their oversized and jiggly nature, and kind of take my attention off everything else in those trailers, but not in an "Oh my God, hawt" way, but in a "did the creator just hit puberty when making this?" way.

Pretty sure our opinions on the matter somehow count as a role-reversal. Well shit, I need to find a dress.

 Yeah, Bilby and I watched the trailer and she though that the women were justified due to the exaggerated nature of the art style. She thought both the guys and the girls were equally ridiculous and didn't really give a damn. Neither did I tbh, but there are a lot of women out there who just don't give a shit. People are individuals, and are offended by different things - regardless of gender.

 Also, I really don't find massive breasts all that attractive. I prefer a b-c cup personally, but then again I don't really give a shit. Boobs are boobs, and I don't really get the fascination with size. I get the fascination with boobs, but not making the gigantic.

Thing is if you look at a lot of art styles in video game whether it be male, female, animal, robot, there is exageration of proportions. I have a edition of Corel Painter Magazine that even talks about this being a staple of fantasy and sci-fi art. Big bodies and little heads, oversized hands an feet, or the reverse with armor that appears skin tight which would make said persons head too big. Adding this technique for sex appeal is really no different. I think some people just need something to whine about. In the tall list of issues that women should be concerned about in how they fair in the world, this topic seems to be pretty damn trivial.

 I know it seems trivial. It really is. Then again, so is gaming. We still complain about it. Why? Because we're passionate. A lot of the women who fight for this stuff are also passionate about games, and want to see changes  either to make them feel more comfortable in their escapist fantasies or to try to progress the medium further as an artform. I'm all for this kind of exaggeration as long as there games that also cater to other genders. Not every game has to cater to both, and we can have games that cater to one or the other. However there should be some form of diversity, both because of equality and because I want to see gaming taken as seriously as other forms of entertainment.

Well to me its kind of like music. There is some truly obnoxious garbage out there that is labeled music and people like it. I don't so I avoid it and don't listen to it. But there is an audience for it whether I like it or not. And yes I will and do talk shit about crap music but I don't go out of my way to bitch about it. If it comes up I'l say something.(And I'm a hypocrite cause I just did,lol.) So my point is if she doesn't like it no one is twisting her arm to buy it. As for influence its kind of a chicken and the egg deal. There are not a lot of games geared toward women because there are not a lot of women playing video games or making them. Therefore there is not a lot of motivation to make games geared toward women, they are trying to turn a profit at the end of the day not make a social statement. Only women can change that. And they can only do that by becoming part of the scene. Standing on the sidelines bitching about is not going to change anything.

 Not a lot of female gamers? The ESA begs to differ. 

• "Forty-five percent of all players are women. Today, adult women represent a greater portion of the game-playing population (31 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (19 percent)."

 Not a lot of female developers?  Heaps of women work in the gaming industry. They're usually on large teams though, so they aren't the focal point. There are a lot of women making indie games as well, so your point is invalid.

 The thing you have to realise though, is that while there are idiots out there who are like "Ban this! The main character's tits are too big!" they are in the minority. A lot of people don't have the skills to make video games, but want to make a change in the industry so they become journalists. 

 Also, she mentioned the depiction of women in one paragraph. The rest is about the game, and she actually enjoyed a lot of it despite it being quite repetitive.

Point taken. But the numbers and results don't pan out. Most companies these days are pouring through numbers and stats to see who they should be pushing their product towards. So if almost 50% of their clientel is female they are either unaware of this or just don't care. Niether of those makes sense if your trying to make money. As for her opinion, I'm sure most women who went to see the Avengers could not stand having to look at Scarlet Johansen in her skin tight costume, yet I don't recal anyone bitching about it.

 Just so you know, I'm not trying to belittle you. You're opinion is perfectly valid, and I'm enjoying this discussion. With that out of the way...

 I don't know why women aren't as catered to as men. I guess it's because leaving a well established audience to reach out to a new one scares them. It could be because our medium is so entrenched in things like violence and boobs that breaking away from that could be seen as difficult.

As for The Avengers? While Scarlette Johanson was wearing skimpy outfits, that just fit her character. Other female characters wore normal clothes and weren't merely objects. In Dragon's Quest, the reviewer doesn't have a problem with the massive busts or little clothing, because as she says, it's an over the top fantasy world and the clothing is justified by the context (paraphrased, but eh). Her problem is more with the way female NPC's are portrayed. They are objects either to be rescued or ogled. They are weak, and they have a lot less characterisation than the males. They are for all intents and purposes rewards for the players, not actual people. At least from what I've seen anyway.

Its cool man, no offense taken and I apologize if my last comment came off a bit abrassive. Video games are one of the fastest evolving forms of media in history so it only makes sense that they are going to face some serious growing pains. I mean since the mid late 90's the issue was that more games were becoming edgier and geared toward a more mature audience. Here in America there is this very backward veiw that animation and video games are for kids, although that has been losing ground. Look at 80 percent of the games for PS3 and 360 and they probably have a mature rating. Not that that  is a good thing, it just more proof that game makers need to think outside of the box. Anyway my point is its just a matter of time before things balence out. People just have to give it time. But you still have T&A in movies, music videos and comics. They are not going to be purged it from videogames anytime soon especially now that it has just become more accepted.

 I agree completely with what you just said. Although that should not be a reason for people not to criticize it if they feel strongly about it.

Not liking the art style is a valid reason to me, though that does put one in the state mind to not like the game from the start (I can't stand the way Wind Waker looks and having to look at it while playing was annoying).  Still, she gave other valid reasons why she enjoyed or didn't enjoy parts of the game.  She stated her opinion intelligently enough.  Can't fault her for that. 

 I agree. It's not like she ranted about it for hours or included in the title just for clicks or anything. She wrote a decent, informative review!

I heard about this site/game from Chris Kohler on WIred's Game/Life podcast. It's all about breasts in video games and how to get past all that sexualization. Have fun. http://theboobjam.com/why

I should also mention the site it written by long time video game reviewer and ex-1uper Jenn Frank!

Yeah, I've been looking forward to this game for a while now :)

Dude, read all the articles in the Reading section. They are making me crack up right now. There's video there too, and a Penny Arcade comic on the subject. Frickin' awesome stuff!

Look at that Atlus rep. Pure class I tell you! Is Danielle the reviewer who writes for Polygon? I heard some nonsense about her catching hell for giving the game a 6.5 or whatever. (Assuming she is said Polygon reviewer.)

  I can't be mad on any front. She's a "true gamer" and to me that gives her the right to have an opinion about games. (Even if I disagree)

  Sadly I bet the trolls are going to hurl their usual "rape" and "death" threats thus making all of us look like a bunch of immature wankers in the process!

  PS: Wasn't one of the big criticisms about the review is that it was "vague" at addressing certain aspects?? Yeah, I should look it up to form a more solid opinion on it. Not that "vague reviews" hold no merit at all!

  PPS: Read the review & I don't have a problem with it. And being I'm an illustrator who likes boobs that should say something.

  Sure, I would have rated Dragon's Crown higher but that's because I'm bias. Beat em ups are one of my genres of choice and I grew up playing Dungeons & Dragons!

 I probably would too. It's the fucking guys who made Odin's Sphere! Come on!  

 IMO from the way I read the review, she didn't have a problem with the way they were dressed or even the player characters really. She was more upset that in 2013 they were still treated as objects and prizes. Which is fair enough. I think if you're going for a ridiculous fantasy setting, there's going to be cleavage. There is no way around that.

Totally,and it's also okay Danielle isn't as much into beat em ups & generic fantasy. (Actually she might be into generic fantasy,just not the way it's portrayed in Dragon's Crown)

I dunno, if I was a female maybe I'd be uncomfortable playing this too. I say "maybe" just because I'm sure there are certain female gamers who have enjoyed Dragon's Crown for what it is too.

At any rate the review did not make me want to eat babies and burn down villages. I can't understand what the hubub is about.

 Yeah. Bilby watched the trailer and thought the clothing was justified by the over the top art style. She had no issues with it. Then again, she didn't see how the female NPC's were portrayed so idk.