PixlBit

Hey Ben.  I hear what you're saying, and I agree that there is some male objectification in games...  But I don't think that it's the same or equal.

That being said, I'm the kind of person that just thinks there should be more male objectification and a little more variety in female characters to make up for it.  All other forms of entertainment have tons of objectification in them.  Video games are getting such a bum rap at the moment because the objectification is mostly (not totally check out games like Hakuoki) one sided.  Also people keep treating gaming like it's a hobby for children, which it clearly isn't.  Outside of sports titles, most game's ESRB ratings are Matures.  A movie like Machete Kills isn't going to get as much flak as Killer is Dead, because games aren't respected the same way films are.  

On a side note, I wonder if anyone remembers the first Bloody Roar.  It was pretty progressive when it comes to female characters.  While it had the standard cute girl Alice, it also had the older heavy set Mitsuko, and the transgendered Fox.  

My issue is we do have more variety in female characters but noone acknowledges it. I think Ellie from The Last Of Us and the revamped Lara Croft are good examples of that. Not to mention Ellen Page's role in Beyond 2 souls. Aka, not all women are being portrayed as overly busty bimbo types anymore.

  Yes, there are still games that are ridiculously sexy just to be that way. Is that even "objectfication" though? Is any attractive depiction of a fictional character objectification? Even if a female character looks sexy and dresses revealingly should we dismiss any positive traits she has all together? That seems kind of sexist (and shallow) to me.

  But really, men do have it just as bad. Unless we're at the top we're considered cheap labor or soldiers for causes. We're tools more powerful people use to get a job done. Either that job involves building something up or tearing something down. Later men are often disregarded after their usefulness comes to an end. (Solid Snake's hyper aging and expiration date as a living weapon poetically symbolizes this.)

  I also don't understand the whole "women are sexualized/men are idealized" bullshit. Biologically a healthy body of either gender is attractive because it premotes the possibility of creating healthy offspring. But for some reason men having a ripped body "isn't the same thing" just because feminism and the politically correct crowd say so.

   I agree fighting games are a more accepting genre to begin with. It's one of the few genres where both male and female diversity is celebrated. Aka, you can have a guy like Rufus going up against greats like Ken,Chun Li, or Ryu! (Not to mention respect shown to more risque characters such as Fox,Bridget, and Poison)

  Of course the problem is less attractive and elderly characters from both genders are often mere comical relief or the "disposable wise mentor" who dies just to give the hero a motivation for revenge or a chance at escaping. Pigsy from Enslaved falls into both of those traps.

  Frankly I'm just tired of being shamed for being a heterosexual male and being told I have some sort of "enchanted privilege" that makes my life easier than everyone else's in every conceivable way. The fact these philosophies are being drilled into kids in school and college makes me sick.

  Look, I'm all for equality but I cannot claim to be a feminist.(Despite it being oh so popular right now) It's mutated into something I want no part of. I'm better off calling myself and egalitarian.

  To pretend "male problems" either don't exist or are somehow "lesser" isn't going to help promote fair treatment for everyone.

 Not mad at you personally,bro. (Sorry if I came off that way,Ceva) My vitriol is directed at the higher eicholons of "game journalism" and the pc culture (political correctness) as a whole. lol.

No worries Ben.  I don't feel like you're attacking me, and I hope you don't think I'm attacking you.  Us talking about this here is way better then us commenting on most of the articles about this stuff on the internet.  I agree with you that it's a hot button topic that game sites are milking for page views.  Besides, I think we agree on most aspects of this issue and only disagree on a few.

Also Street Fighter (and Virtua Fighter) are pretty good with their depictions of female characters.  Chun Li, Juri, and Cammy all look like they can kick some serious butt.  And while Dead or Alive goes the sexy over strong route design wise, I love that series too.  

Also don't be ashamed for liking sexy depictions of women in your entertainment.  That's how the terrorists win!!!  lol  For real though, don't be ashamed for liking what you like.  I like most of the same things, and I'm not ashamed.  I don't see why sexual expression is such a big deal and violence isn't.  We can admit that the violence in games is just fantasy and an acceptable form of entertainment for adults.  What's the big deal about sex?

Also I saw this and I remembered your blog about the Hawkeye initiative.  I hope you get a laugh from it (and I hope it doesn't just pour salt on old wounds).

I saw that  . Robot Chicken is great. It was funny how Hawkeye became the next "pinup" to drool over. lol. I also understand how heroes like him and Black Widow would be frustrated because they have to be around a lot of people with super powers. It would be hard not to carry an inferiority complex. But that's why I find heroes with no powers interesting. They do the amazing feats through strength of will,rigorous training, and sheer guile. It's definetly the harder road. 

 As for fighters I do think women in them are respectfully depicted. Yeah, Cammy might get complaints for how she's dressed but when you take who she really is into context she's a very strong female protagonist. She went from Bison's brain-washed lackey to someone who fought for her freedom and got her independence back. (There's also a tender scene of her helping Juli as well.) As much as female fighters may get flak for their revealing costumes most of them do have deeper motivations and interesting back stories.

 Overall I probably shouldn't bitch as much as the people bitching. However, a part of me feels obligated to give a different perspective on things even if I come off as a crack pot. 

At "Male Objectification" I couldn't help but think of Cho Aniki right away. 

I really can't imagine complaining about this. It's just funny.

As a guy I wouldn't even care for what passes as that kind of objectfication. Sexy guy in a speedo as an unlockable costume? Bring it on! I loved Chris Redfield's Road warrior/male stripper attire. lol.

 This doesn't bother me either. What does bother me had the genders in this video been reversed (Buncha guys ogling over one sexy girl) there would have been some sort of faux outrage from the political correctness police.

A few months ago I would have commented on this. Now I let Godot talk about sexism for me. I've talked too much about it. 

Godot's a good representative! Based on his visor design he could fire 3 eye beams to Cyclops's one! So if someone disagrees with him....yeah....

People think too much. :)

Agreed. Games should be a fun hobby and I'm tired of people trying to drag their politics and agendas into a space I reserve for escapism and enjoyment. Don't know if trying to debate with those people makes me come off as just as bad. Wouldn't be surprised if it did. For that I apologize,Cary!

I'm not one to wax philosophical about this stuff but it occurred to me while I was reading your piece that the sexualization of women probably isn't the goal (usually). They're being idealized too...but by men. So yeah, sexism and whatever lol.

I admit I design characters to "look hawt" from a visual perspective. However, that's just biology. But when I write about those same characters I do give them layers and they're supposed to represent more than raw sex appeal.

I don't feel guilty of this on account most women writers and illustrators do the same thing. They crank out a lot of Fabio, Justin Bieber, and Edward Cullen types.

It's just kind of weird many feminists try to make men feel "guilty" for being heterosexual and expressing heterosexual fantasies. Isn't that arguing with nature itself? Condemning men for being men is kind of ridiculous!

I know what you mean about how men are objectified. Heck, I've personally been objectified myself. Sure, it's not sexually, but I have easy mood-swings, almost like a woman, from a psyche that's been broken by going through medical crap most people never have to even experience in life at the tender ages of 13-15. I can't be the stoic, always gonna get stuff done stereotype that men are held up to, and at times that's been questioned of me. It's a shame, really. For people saying women aren't just housemakers, they are big on men being the hardy, nails-to-the-earth group.

I'd say you're still strong,JB! Stoicism is simply carrying on and being the best human being you can be. You can let the tears fall and still be strong simultaneously. That "Don't cry,be a man" bullshit is just that. Er,bullshit!

I guess some gamers have forgotten about this...

This isn't objectification,this is idealization! Right,sure it is. Yup! Totally.