PixlBit

Those were some of the pictures of Hawkeye that made me laugh, again more for the position he was placed in than the supposed point. Which makes me wonder a little why Hawkeye was chosen for this in the first place, probably another point that I missed somewhere.

What bugs me a little about the whole thing is that they're going after the artist when it's not really their fault. As far as I understand it, a good chunk of them are just taking orders from higher-ups as to what to draw so they can appeal to the target demographic.

That and comics are no different than idealized Greek Sculptures of both sexes. I think they're just our next stage in fantasy fulfillment and story-telling. (Much how The Odyssey and Illyaid were.)

What gets me is the refusal to admit that "well muscled men with chisled jaw lines" are sexy. Some idiot always pipes up with "It's empowerment,not sexiness!". Yet why do women drool over Sam and Dean from Supenatural? Because yes,they're physically chisled and fit just like super hero men are.

Women actually do derive a lot of power from their beauty, body language, and sexuality. People can deny that all they want but it's true. And at least the women in comic books usually can take care of themselves and kick a lot of ass. That's more than I can say for the main female protagonist of Twilight! 

As I mentioned before I follow a lot of cosplay models on Facebook. These women are not victums, they are not being exploited. They are anteprenuers making a living doing what they love. One of my favorites, Stella Chu does Burlesqe alongside her cosplay, sometimes they even cross over. And the Burlesqe of today is nothing like that of the 50's and 60's. Its about female empowerment through ecceptance and pride in ones body. Between the Bible thumpers trying to demonize sex and Hollywood and marketing agencies over comercializing sex, its no wonder everyone is totally confused about how feel about these things. But I totally agree, the analogy that these folks are trying to use does not work. And I am the king of fucking analogies so I know what I'm talking about, lol. And I should also mention that if you look in the photo albums of these ladies you will see a lot of the same super erotic manga and comic illustrations that us guys drool over. They like them too.

I learned on Facebook women and men are both perverts. When I visit the galleries of female friends 70% of all pictures are depictions of sexualized and beautiful women while the remaining 30% are hunky shirtless men or pretty-boy bishonens.

Yet it's strange how men recieve the most guilt and shaming over their fantasies. To me super extreme liberals are the new prudish Bible Thumpers. Fuck helping children in 3rd world countries or running a soup kitchen! Time to rally against the next risque attractive female character in a videogame or the next Catwoman comic book! The priorities of modern day activism are so petty and trivial all I can do is shake my head in befuddlement,Gemini.

I'm really tired of prettiness in both sexes in the media. I almost don't want to see anything anymore because it's always just a bunch of pretty people. I don't worship a look and prettiness is a dime a dozen. Every time there's a new "hot" person being talked about I look at them and see the same darn face I've seen every few years. I like real people not Kens and Barbies. They all look like they were cut from the same mold like a pack of clones. The whole image thing just bores me to tears.

Those female poses are ridiculous. No one engaging in any kind of physical toil is going to stand just right so that both their chests and buttocks are both visible to the viewer at the same time.  It's hack work, pure and simple. You see this pose over and over again. Nothing worse than being obvious about your hackery.

And the males have always been ridiculous. Bodybuilders aren't known for their combat or acrobatic prowess. Batman looks like a roid-head now, yet he's supposed to be a gymnast, acrobat, escape artist, and stealthy prowler.

Your White Queen example holds for the White Queen. But then why is every other character put into such physical context regardless of their role?  Let's not lie to ourselves, this is all about appealing to the lowest common denominator, and has been since the 90s and Image comics. So females are sexpots, males are pro-wrestlers.

What neither the HI people or their detractors seem to understand is that superhero comics are lowbrow entertainment, for the most part, drawn by people who don't understand the historical context of artistic anatomy.  They are in no way comparable to classical Greek sculpture or Renaissance figurative works, which were steeped in humanistic and religious philosophy, and a rigorous observation of anatomy for the end goal of better conveying the subject's pathos. There is no kinship between the Laocoon sculpture and modern day hero comics. Maybe in the Jack Kirby days, and those that followed him, but not now, not anymore. There is a galaxy wide gulf of artistry, maturity and intellect between the hero rags and the classics.  So these self-styled intellectuals and progressives should maybe stop occupying their time with such low culture. You don't see elite literature or film critics/enthusiasts spending any more time with Twilight or Michael Bay movies than their jobs require. But the video gamers and hero comic audience wallow in crudity whilst complaining about how crude it all is. SMH.

Besides, the Japanese and French have been blowing American comics out of the water for decades. They really explore sexuality and violence, while Americans like to pose.  All that so called "sexuality" in hero comics, yet never showing actual sex.  Think we'll ever see Clark's penis or Emma's vulva?

In addition I noticed that men did not have cocks in American comics for awhile. Recently I've seen a few bulges but before that? Eunuchs everywhere,Chris!

It's also weird there's exaggerated anatomy and skin everywhere but not sex or even much exploration of sexuality. (This does not include more quality stuff such as the DC Vertigo line)

But despite mainstream comics being a bit "immature" they sometimes surprise. Would so many people love Batman if he had no depth? I think many people like The Dark Knight so much because Arkham city itself is a metaphor for troubled and psychologically damaged people running around in outlandish costumes. There's more to The Dark Knight mythos than the surface.

Despite being a Marvel fan-boy in my youth I admit there's something lacking in the writing for me. As much as I like The Avengers for example, it's usually rather shallow escapism. X-men is a cut deeper but not by much. And Marvel Zombies? I realize many of us loved that arch but it was a cheap cash in.

Comics as a whole can be better then again,some comics already are more mature than their competition. It all depends on where we look.

It's funny, but I read an article about how there was fan outrage because Alex Ross depicted a male heroes "bulge" in one of his illustrations.  People want a veneer of sexuality, but they don't want the gritty bits under the surface.

Batman depends on the writer, as does The Punisher. I think these are inherently silly characters though, so I like a writer who can straddle the line between seriousness and absurdity.  Paul Dini (Animated Series, Arkham games) comes to mind.

I have to admit that I used to think Jack Kirby was lame. But he really brought a whole new sensibility to hero comics, based on science and mythology. I think his work had the ties to Greek art that you brought up, but I don't see it in the work of Jason Scott Campbell or Adam Hughes.

Personally, I don't like in-your-face titillation. I like subtlety. Drawing fit people is enough, I don't need them to contort their bodies in an effort to show off their main assets. "Naturalness" is sexier to me, as seen in the work of Milo Manara (who draws explicit sex comics) and Frank Frazetta (more PG-rated, but his sexy, endowed women look real and touchable).

Jack Kirby was sort of who I thought about when I presented the Greek mythology angle but I guess he really has not been around for awhile. At its' best Batman also has many nods to mythology but you're right,depending on the writer Batman has had ridiculous moments too. There was a particular Frank Miller run that was teeth gnashingly bad. (I'm not referring to Dark Knight Returns. It was a whole other thing.)

Personally I like titillation though I do not think every single comic book should have it. If a particular run of graphic novels has a certain mood and a certain tone "throwing in the T & A" is not always the best of ideas.

Usually my bottom line comes down to simply having choices. The thought provoking stuff and the absurd escapism stuff should both be on hand for us to enjoy either extreme.

I fail to believe Ben that after you've finished one of your master pieces you dont stand up, look to the heavens and give a war cry.... your all man and you know it!

exactly. it's silly. why bother during hawkeye like such. It doesn't serve no purpose than to make hawkeye look silly. changing a public image culture will take a while. Moreso when change is made for just "changing' sake.