PixlBit

yeah I agree. While I adored Amnesia: Machine for Pigs, not all survival horror has to be weaponless.  It doesn't have to be too serious either -- the original resident evil may have had guns, but that shit was scary, because we didn't know what to expect.  I think that's what really is the basis of survival horror -- being fucked up with the unexpected. 

"Here, take these acid rounds!"  -- sure, it's cheesy, but Resident Evil was decently scary.  I'm down with games where u are weaponless too, or only have a cell phone or a flashlight or whatever, but anybody who gets radical with their viewpoint on this stuff is just stupid.  There's a place for everything, and it's all good. 

The biggest gripe I have with some of these "hit indie darlings" if they're also quite short,Matt. Is there a reason to go through the first Slender game again? Even if it mixed up the 8 pages you have to collect you're still doing the same thing. (Which is limited to finding them all) Amnesia? It's scary but also feels a tad short and restricting. (Though some of the mods for it are nice)

It's okay for these games to exist but the high praise for them confuses me. Yeah, they're good in spots but rarely "great". That and they rarely truly manage to scare me personally whereas many of the other games I have mentioned "did" scare me. (Including the first RE and SH games)

I liked machine for pigs a lot.  I dont know for sure if its a great game but i really liked the story.  I think all of these games take a willingness to be scared, and often we r too jaded to enjoy them.  Thats what i wrote in my review i think.

i just think that the genre like al succesful genres has split into sub genres and now we have people warring about them.  I think the creepiest games ive played recently are machine for pigs and stalker.  One you are armed and one you are not.  Both are scary

Call of Pipyat was pretty damned scary! I still might try Machine For Pigs even though the first Amnesia did not scare me.

MAchine for Pigs spooked me, but what i really liked about it in the end was the story and the lore.  That was really cool.  It wasn't much of a game, but the story (told kind of distantly) was really cool. 

I like weird creepy stories so there's hope. Honestly Deadly Premonition did not have the best gameplay across the board yet the narrative and oddball characters were so deep and wonderfully weird it did not matter.

Yes, I may feel empowered with a weapon at my disposal, but that does not mean that it will make the game any less terrifying.  There is that sequence in RE4 where you cannot kill the enemies until you get some special scope for your rifle.  That was one of the most tense sequences I have ever played in a game, and it still bugs me today.

You talking about the regenerators,Trans? Maybe not but for me those "things" were the worst! Just thinking about em makes me shiver. Quite a few of the boss fights in RE 4 put me on edge too. Too bad RE 5 & RE 6 lost that "special something" RE 4 possessed! I had a bit of fun with them but they failed to capture the rustic/ murky/menacing atmosphere RE 4 had in spades.

That's it.  Regenerators.  There are also those hulking necormorphs in Dead Space that stalk you, and you are unable to kill them.

I remember being chased by the invincible necromorph in Dead Space 1. I panicked so bad it took me awhile to figure out I needed to use interactive control panels or movable objects in the environment against him to win each time. A lot of dying going on. lol.

I actually agree. I'm kind of getting sick of having to run from all of my enemies. I mean, to begin with, it's scary, but after a while, it just gets boring and frustrating. It becomes the worst kind of stealth game.

 I think there should be variety. Sections where you shoot and sections where you run and hide. That's why I'm looking forward to Shinji Mikami's new game (I mean, the other reason, besides the fact that ITS SHINJI FUCKING MIKAMI) The Evil Within. You have a gun in that, but a lot of enemies can't be killed. Some can be brought down, but only for a short while, and you have to set them on fire to truly kill them.

 I don't personally find the Dead Space games scary, but that isn't because you have a weapon!

Dead Space 3 fucked up in a lot of ways,Blake. Isaac is supposed to be an engineer using tools as make-shift weapons but in DS 3 there seems to be more of a sense you are a "space marine".

Also developers often forget hordes of monsters are far less terrifying than fewer strategically placed monsters which have unpredictable AI patterns.

But yeah, I'm pretty psyched about Evil Within myself! They also recently teased a female character and I hope she's playable just like Sebastian is.

As you can probably tell, I'm not really into survival horror games.  But I do like a scary (not gross) story every once in a while.

I don't have any good reasons, but I think that Jill (Sandwich) Valentine is cool.

I like ghost stories, so I did try to play and review the first Fatal Frame game.  I think I would've liked it a lot better if your character didn't move like she just got out of bed and is still half asleep.  Even when ghosts were chasing her, she just plodded along.

One game I'm really enjoying right now I think you would like.  It's called Child of Light.

Don't know much about Child Of Light but I'll look it up,Cary! The movements of characters were improved in later FF games though you can't sprint like an Olympian runner in them. It's more of a brisk jog!

I need to get back to child of light myself

The definition of survival horror is kind of blurry for me. I can't really distinguish between one or the other (shooter/action). I actually think that shooters like F.E.A.R., Spec Ops the Line, Killer 7 and even Wolfenstein New Order kind of fall into the survival horror category as well. All of the atmospheric and psychological themes are there. But I tend to look at the RE and Silent Hill Series from PSOne seperate from what came afterwards like RE4,5,6 which were more run-and-gun type games. It is what it is. And actually, I don't think I've played a game yet to top Resident Evil 2 or Silent Hill 2 in terms of survival horror, no matter what gaming hipsters say! 

Speaking from nostalgia,no games scared me more than Silent hill 1 & 3 and Resident evil 2. I will say Dead Space, RE 4, and Fatal Frame 2 came pretty close though.

 Re 5 and RE6 did not scare me one iota but I managed to have fun with them. RE: Revelations was actually surprisingly good (It surpassed RE 6 in my opinion) and was even tense and stressful in some places.

 Deadly Premonition did not scare me but it had a wonderful horror themed story and interesting characters. (It was also the first open world horror game I played until I delved into Call Of Pipyat a bit) 

 Ps: Technically VTM: Blood-lines was my first open world horror game but eventually you become so powerful as a vampire it becomes more of a supernatural thriller. Regardless I highly recommend it!

Only game I've played in that category is Condemned: Criminal Origins. You do have a gun, but very little ammo. It forces you to fight hand to hand mostly, which makes it scarier because you're more vulnerable and have to get close to each enemy. Too many guns, and you can shoot from a distance, reducing the tension. Give you nothing but a lead pipe and you're on the edge of your seat the whole time. That game made me sweat.

Condemned almost seems like a 1st person Silent Hill game from a detective's perspective. Thanks Knight, I'll try checking it out!

I tried Condemned on a whim and was very happily surprised. It's so visceral. I really got into it.

I'm not really into games where you HAVE to sneak around to survive. It's tedious as hell for me, especially if the entire game is based around that mechanic. While I appreciate it when designers can add the option for stealth, I'd still like to be able to throw down with the bad guys. I don't care if the bad guys are a huge challenge, just make it possible for me to beat them down.

Are you familiar with Capcom's Haunting Ground, by any chance?

I am familar with Haunting Ground,Andrew. I had it years ago but it got lost when I moved between apartments. I like what I played of it including the story about how the homunculi were created to be "the perfect person" but were all very flawed in some way. I actually felt bad for some of the main antagonists. (But loathed others)

I agree though. I like having "choices" in my survival horror. And yes,replayability too!

I was actually fortunate enough to find this game in Vintage Stock a few days ago for $20. Apparently the game sold like shit and is rare now, because I've never seen it on Amazon or eBay for less than $70.

I think I just want to show some positivity and i'm being a wee hypocrite because I haven't played much survival horror, but I there's nothing wrong with games where you are defenseless just like there's nothing wrong with games where you can fight back. Really the mission statement of Survival Horror games is well, to cause Horror and it doesn't matter if you can shoot with a gun or not.

I also would like to defend a bit Amnesia (haven't played Slender that much) by saying that just because it started the craze, doesn't mean it's bad. In a lot of ways, it fits the game and though I haven't played that much, it really is scary.

Though if your rant was also directed at snobs of those games, then I agree.

It's no crime to "like" Slender or Amnesia. Just directing this at those people who think anything that is not Slender or Amnesia is not true horror. lol. You cool,man!  Sorry if I came off as abrasive and opinionated. It's not as if I have the right to dictate what is scary and what is not to anyone other than myself! Thanks for helping me keep my "inner jerk bag" in check,heh!

I dont know abut you  but i played haunting grounds and  it scared the shit out of me. Im not saying it cant be survival horror if you can fight back because it most certainly can. Im just saying, being defenseless can scare the shit out of me a lil more easily then haveing a way to fight back. Haunting Grounds and Clock Tower are 2 games that come to mind in the scarey horror survival area that keep  you for majoriaty part weaponless, running is the option except until you reach certain points. It prolly for me stems from feeling helpless at one point and the fact i get severally scared if I am helpless. It plays on my emotons there.

I say RE  and SH were my first horror games but I did play the snes Clocktower on rom. Yeah,it really was scary and I loved the beautiful visual prsentation for that game. The scissor-man made me jump a few times. It's odd I took to Clocktower more than Amnesia on account in many ways they are similar.

Secondly, I did get to play Haunting Ground! Wanted to finish it too but it got lost when I moved between apartments,sadly.

The problem, and why these genre fanboy wars make no sense, is: survival horror is a bullshit genre, or was until games like DayZ and Project Zomboid hit the scene and had actual survival needs like food, water, and shelter and permanent death. How do Resident Evil or Silent Hill put any more emphasis on "survival" than any other game where the protagonist can die? You try to survive in Mario, Pac-Man, Contra, Starfox, Dragon's Lair, Maniac Mansion (you have limited resources in that too!). etc, etc. Oregon Trail had more to do with survival techniques than any of these horror games. Horror themed games get the 'survival' tag more often than not, like the word doesn't mean anything in itself. I mean F.E.A.R.? Really? The game that plays like 100 hundred other FPS is a "survival" game? Being psychological makes something survival horror? I thought they called those "pyschological thrillers?"

I think people just twist terms to fit their own definition, that's what this is really all about; it's an egoistic pursuit. Like naming something "survival horror" or "RPG" makes it more sophisticated, special, and thus the people who like them can claim they are more sophisticated people than those who just play action games. I mean, it's pretty easy to survive in Slender: don't pick up the notes. It's not like you get to leave the areas if you find all the notes anyway. There is no progression.

It's kind of what I was trying to say. The term survival horror has been broadened to catch more types of games, the way Alpha Protocol and Mass Effect 2 are RPGs, so it's hard to distiguish. I used to think survival horror meant running from Zombies, so anything outside of Resident Evil was just a horror game. Now I just really like horror themed games, and don't necessarily care if it's survival or not. I don't want to play Day Z at all, so I guess I don't like survivor games. 

I think you'd like State Of Decay,Chris. It's very fast and action based but you also can stock pile food,scavenge for medical supplies,gather other survivors, drive around, fortify your base,and even grow your own garden depending on where you decide to set up shop.

My pc cannot run that beast but my friend let me play it a bit on his pc! If capcom makes a future RE game similar to state of decay I'll be all over it like an excited dog on a human's leg! lol.

Yeah, I want to check that out eventually. Too many games I haven't gotten to yet. 

I hate not being to fight in games. I don't like it to be overly complicated but if I have to continually run from monster and find place to hide until he go away that makes me a sad panda.It's not frightening it's just frustrating.

Given that, Capcom's insistence on making the RE games hard to control is just as stupid. It never made me scared it just pissed me off that my character would not run in the direction I pushed. 

RE 2 scared me the most but I did not truly get into the franchise until RE 4,Peter! I thought that game had a nice blend of horror,atmosphere,tension,and empowerment and it was sad when RE 5 and RE 6 did not mix together that recipe with as much skill. Frankly I'd recommend Revelations over RE 6!

I thought the same about Revelations. When it begins it just feels like an old school RE but with better controls.

I haven't played that many survival horror games myself, and even then all the ones I have played have been RE games (Zero, 4, the 3DS demo of Revelations and the DS port of the first one). Stuff like Slender doesn't interest me because it feels like it depends on jump scares a little too much, and I'm really not of fan of them to begin with.

Amnesia is a cut above jump scares but you're right,Slender seemed like nothing but the same tactic regurgitated and repeated in tedium. However,the later Slender games beyond 8 pages might be better. I also think RE as a series had some of the best horror moments of all time and still holds up well. (Especially RE 1 remake,RE 2,RE: Nemesis,RE 4, Code Veronica,and Revelations)

If I'm scared, then it's survival horror.  Fuck what anyone else says. 

James if I ever make a good horror game I'll slap this quote on the box. lol 

Not sure if I could agree in a sense. I found Slender to be quite scary at times but only thanks to the jump scare tactics it uses in the game for the purpose of drawing a scare. It's why I got a number one ranking in my halloween gaming list a coulpe of years back.

But with that said I can see where your coming from with that notion given it's just an scanvenger hunt. Even the slender man's appearances can be tracked and predicted with enough brainpower to figure out the sequences. I only mention this given how the original clock tower game only gave you the option to hide before traps could be used and some consider that game a worthy title to be considered horror.

it does make me wonder though where all of this "you can't fight back" idea came about in deciding what was or wasn't survival horror. Was it the action oriented turn that was RE4? or the run away variant idie titles as of late from the PC that got lots of attention?