PixlBit

I wrote a blog about this on 1up a while back after deciding to talk to women that I know, gamers and non gamers, to see how they felt anout so-called sexism in games. The verdict I found was that some care, some don't, some like it. But more importantly I learned that female gamers are tired of being singled out as "girl gamers" or "female gamers", they just want to be treated as gamers, but they find it hard to just be a gamer when these white knight journalists are always turning them into victims. Sure there are women that do it from time to time, but it's the men in this industry that feel the need to defend them that really take it too far. Bob mackey is an excellent example of this, as are Patrick Klepik from GiantBomb, and Author Gies from Rebel FM. Shit's irritating as hell.

I respect any woman who can regard herself as a gamer and leave it at that.  Frankly, I'm actually pretty irritated by the whole "girl gamer" thing, because I find that it leads to this double-edged sword that makes no one happy.  On the one hand you'll have the vapid, obnoxious type who treats herself as a rarity in the community and uses that for a kind of gain (re: Maxim's Gamer Girl of the Year).  On the other hand, I think there really is that group of games journalists who are too eager to throw up a picture of an E3 booth babe or of Lara Croft and say, "You see this?! DON'T BE THIS! DON'T LET ANYONE DO THIS TO YOU!"

Like I said in my comment to this article itself, there's still a problem with sexism in games and gaming.  However, I'm not really sure if these kinds of "documentaries" are the best way of handling that issue.

Yeah, I think part if it from people like those is that male gamers are some of the worst people to understand how to approach an issue like sexism, even if it is a part of their medium.

I had little interest in checking out the video based on comments the author said a while ago. I have even less now. I'm not one who is going to go on a rant about how men are negatively portrayed in games, because for the most part, men are given a pretty positive representation in comparison to women. And that's the thing, you need to compare how males are represent in comparison to women. That's really the whole idea in researching sexism in my mind.

True, men are more positive. Yet it still reeks of a double standard when someone will be grasping at straws for women while avoiding any potential negative effects on men.

This is probably a terrible introduction I am making to the gaming community on this site.  But, in the interest in self honesty, I must.   I am not unsympathetic to the plight of the "girl gamer" as many discuss in articles or posts of this kind.  I do see this video as stretching, as many female friends of mine agree to.  In response to the HaonEtat01 above me, and his comments on males who have posted about this before,   I agree.  I and my female friends, have read those writers remarks and protests as nothing more than a lame attempt to, as a female friend of mine put it "trick their way into my pants".

Yeah, I'm not saying that talking about sexism in and of itself is bad. I'm saying that the rants we're getting suck most of the time.

Rather than just showing one side, the video only focuses on how women are objectified by this.

Well, yeah.  It's a discussion on sexism in a male-dominated industry.  If I'm going to put out an analysis or launch a dialogue about racism in America, I'm not going to put the radical views of the Black Panthers on the same level as, say, Jim Crow Laws, or any other multitude of racial issues against blacks/non-whites.

In short: there is an undeniable problem with sexism and video games.  From the way that some gamers (unfortunately more vocal ones) treat female players to the way the industry is complicit in promoting mysoginistic products (female depictions, booth babes, etc.), a person would have to be blind in order to not see it, especially in light of many of the demographics and definitions of "gamers."

That being said, I really have no idea what kind of authority Sarkeesian has to make these claims other than her study on gender issues.  Not to sound like a hard-nosed xenophobe, but I'm not really sure what her "cred" is.  If she really has been picking out the "easy targets" (Tomb Raider, Mario, etc.), then I would argue that her research may be a bit too short-sighted.  Does she actually game?  I'm not seeing much saying she does, and I do take some issue with that, because I think that lends itself to too much navelgazing on a subject that really does need to be discussed by all parties in the gaming world.

It's definitely true that women have a much worse representation than men and your point about the Black Panthers is a good one. Yet just like affirmative action is a topic worth addressing despite that the majority is getting represented, addressing both sides of the issue is important with sexism. It is a lot more relatable and makes for an all around more interesting point if we see the picture as a whole rather than just one side.

I'm not sure cred even comes into play here.  Do females get sexist remarks playing on xboxlive ?  I'm sure of it, without a doubt.  Does mario promote sexism? That is just asinine.

Let me reclarify my statement a bit.

If I were to analyze a theme running throughout a certain form, it would help if I actually had some experience with it.  So, let's say I wanted to study racial-based themes in Medieval European artwork--not a hot topic like video games, of course, but let's assume in this situation, these are top sellers on the App Store.

If I, as both a researcher and presenter of a point, wanted my analysis to mean something, it'd help if I actually put some good time into the source material.  This means I'd have to study the art pieces of the time; the history of the art; the history of the cultures which produced the artists and their patrons (kings, clergy, etc.); and the history at those points in time.  And heck, that's the least I would have to study--I'm pretty sure it could get far deeper than that.

As such, my presentation wouldn't mean much if I were to leave the viewer with, "Wow, a painting of a moor and, here, a painting of the Wandering Jew!  Can you guys BELIEVE HOW RACIST ALL OF THIS IS?!  ARE YOU NOT AS ACADEMICALLY OUTRAGED AS MYSELF?!"  That would be lazy, if only because it required so little effort or skill in presenting a condemnation of a (modern) point-of-view.  It would also be a disservice on the larger scale because I, the creator, am leaving out a lot of other facts and perspectives because I may have been less than able and/or willing to research myself.

As far as this project's concerned, I am curious about her status as a potential gamer, because I would prefer someone documenting such a topic to have that kind of experience.  In the grand scheme, no, I'll admit that it isn't necessary, but like I said, I would rather this matter - which, I'll say again, is very important to discuss - fall victim to navelgazing in order to simply establish this point.

Man I love when I get people like you commenting on my blogs. I'm not trying to devalue the subject in and of itself, just saying if people are going to address it, they need to do a better job than they are right now. Those are just some points where they fall short in my eyes. There could be more and these won't work for every time someone addresses them. They're just ideas.

Sometimes it's fun to read deeper into things. Aka, ask who the mother of Bowser's kids is or ponder if Mario's adventures are an induced hallucinogenic drug coma!

The problem is, many activists read deeper into things minus the fun part. Everything becomes a patriarchal conspiracy to keep women down even if it's as seemingly innocent as the game "Cooking Mama" for the wii.

Personally I'd respect more feminists if they also accepted men are objectified too. We're expected to be warriors,protectors,providers,and even sacrificial lambs for the right cause and most men falling outside those roles have to work much harder to be respected and recognized.

Don't get me wrong. There is sexism in gaming. However, at least to me I'm more concerned with how "real people" get treated online while gaming rather than how fictional characters are portrayed in videogames themselves.

Lastly, yes, misogyny exists. Then again, so does misandry.

Yeah, I'm not trying to devalue the a subject, I just don't think the people covering it treat it with the respect it deserves, instead forcing a rant to further their own agenda.

It's true. Most debaters seem entirely pro men or entirely pro women. It frustrates the fuck out of me. Isn't it easy to see we need some sort of fair middle ground?

NO YOUR WONG! ALL GAMERZ ARE RAPISTS AND LKIVE IN THERE GRANDMOTHERS BASEMENT AND MASTURBATE TO KIDDIE PORN ALL DAY!!!! OH, AND MASS EFFECT 3 MAKES PEOPLE SHOOT SCHOOL CHILDREN! THE DAILY MAIL SAYS SO!

Classic Blake humor. I love this stuff. lol.

Damn. All caps, I can't compete with that. Guess I'll just pack up and go home

While I have issues with Sarkeesian’s approach and a lot of the things she says, I would like to address item #1.  The fundamental issue is that these characters that are “sexist towards men” point of view, is that all of these characters are created by men.  This isn’t sexism, it’s the hero fantasy.  It’s a projection of how we view ourselves as a sex.  It’s a power fantasy.  The brutish man ends up with the pretty lady – who happens to be useless without the man around to protect her.

You may not like Marcus and the game from Gears of War, but that’s a man’s interpretation of another man. 

Now, if women were creating these characters all the time it would be one thing.  But a woman isn’t objectifying Kratos or Marcus.  They didn’t create those avatars – we did.  If anyone is “sexist” against men, it’s other men.

Men hate the sexism in games question because it rings true.  We hate to admit that there is a problem in this industry, because that would mean to admit there is a problem would mean that we would have to admit that there is something wrong with what we love.  Men also come from a position of power – games are created based on the 18-34 white male demographic for the most part.  Addressing this issue would also mean that we would no longer be the focus, and who doesn’t want to be the focus?

I’m not saying that anyone here is sexist – but we have to admit there is a problem and stop grasping for straws to prove there isn’t an issue.  Sure, anyone can point to a few exceptions, but women have practically the entire industry to point out as their example.

And to show that I’m not piling on, I will say that I agree with some of your points.  Picking apart Mario’s “save the princess” theme doesn’t really say much – there just isn’t any real substance there.  Other M is a better example – as much as you may not want to talk about – because it makes an otherwise empowered woman, subservient to a man for no real good reason.

Sarkeesian may be full of it - but that doesn’t make her completely wrong.  We can’t ignore the issue, we must explore it.  And we can’t keep getting defensive about it either.  Some of what we find will hurt, but those are just growing pains.  If we want videogames to be taken seriously, we need to take down the “no girls allowed” signs and grow the hell up.   

Yeah, I get that point. I'm not saying that the issues are equal, nor that every talk needs to address both issues. I actually like Marcus Fenix and think a rant on Gears would be bullshit. But so are all these other sexism rants and from these people's viewpoints, this should be offensive in the same way. I just want to see this issue get the viewpoints it deserves. And even though it does deserve most of its attention towards women, I think the other side needs to be examined at least a little.

Heard - and I agree.  It's good to have civilized discourse on important matters like this.  And it warms my heard that the community here is actually talking about this stuff and not reducing themselves to the savagery that often accompanies these subjects on other sites.

I would like to add that some women want to be rescued.  It's an old fashioned statement, but I've heard women use it.  Just look at our other forms of media.  Books, television/movies, hell, even music....  Stuff written by women that have women being rescued.  How is videogames any different?  Should men not rescue women at all?  Is it sexism or is it a story model being done to death? 

What Mr. Miller said, x10.

My issue with Sarkeesian is that she's spending other peoples' money to make 20+ minute rants rather than doing anything to actually promote change in the industry. Having been a gamer since 1983 who happens to be female, I've seen a lot. I've never been ashamed to tell people I'm a gamer, reactions have run the gamut of people treating me like a three-headed mutant to being considered cool. I laugh at the silly, non-offensive stuff like the costumes the female characters wear in a lot of RPGs, make jokes about Lara Croft's cup size in the earlier Tomb Raider games, and urge people to play games like Beyond Good & Evil. I also vote with my wallet: if I know a game is going to offend me in any way, I don't buy the game. If Ms. Sarkeesian really wants to change the industry, the money that she spends on her video series would be better spent developing a game with a strong female protagonist. She's not going to change anything by just pissing people off.

That's the biggest problem I have with Anita. Aka, she took tons of money from other people and used the "troll comments" to cleverly manipulate her supporters into giving her even more finacial support.

As I've already stated before "documentaries" aren't going to change the gaming landscape. If Sarkesian wanted to go that route she could fund her own game studio & hire her own staff  or make indie games herself to express her ideals.

Lastly, I haven't seen her do much lately. I'm sure she has done "something" but the fact she wasn't even a gamer to start with rubs me the wrong way. It kind of makes me wish a female who has been passionate about gaming her whole life would step up to the plate and do what Sarkesian is doing but with a more open minded balanced perspective.

So I was just checking Facebook, and a good friend and fellow gamer had posted this on his wall. Goes right back to my statement: if you don't like it, change it.

can't argue with that. 

Lately I've reached a point that I jut completely ignore any talk about sexism or misogyny in video games. A lot of it is just attention seekers talking out of their asses making an issue out of nothing. Most of the examples I've seen are completely harmless and I wonder why people are so easily offended over fictional characters and stories. 

I just fail to see a problem with the games themselves. Yes, there is sexism in the gaming community and industry itself, and I think that's more important because that involves REAL people. But instead people want to focus on pixelated damsels in distress. Seriously?

That's the problem with "crying wolf". Eventually the village doesn't listen anymore so when a real wolf finally does come out the townsfolk are totally unprepared for it. The same thing can happen to the gaming community.

I agree the bigger concern should be how "real gamers" are treated online. There's a lot of "real" homophobia,racism, and sexism going on and it should be stopped.

As for how games portray women & men it's not more of an exaggerated and skewed image when compared to how books and movies portray us. I personally "like" the fantastical escapism games provide but to each their own!